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Here's my Toob 10T at rehearsal band. I put it in the centre of the room with a long cable to my Milkman 100 pedal amp. Everyone can hear it at fairly low volume.
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02-15-2022 03:50 PM
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Despite the sound-isolated ceiling. A hard ceiling is all the acoustic lens you need. Playing upright outdoors doesn't work too well.
Last edited by Gitterbug; 02-15-2022 at 04:18 PM.
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I suspect that when the boomer generation is no longer driving trends, everything will be some variant of modeling.
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I’ve been doing that with my TOOB a lot. Sounds great.
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I could do with that on my metros. Ah, well
Originally Posted by Gitterbug
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Back in uni some guys in my class were doing a thesis on 360^ cameras. We’re talking 1999 here. Mobiles were still 1g.
they had a camera lens beamed vertically up at a mirror with a clever shape- like a 3D sinusoidal peak or bell curve even.
this would give them a wonderfully warped polar image they used signal analysis to unwrap to make a 360 degree landscape view.
the idea was you could plonk it on the roof of a car and identify vertical structures like lamp poles, sign posts, people’s legs, pre defined marker points and go autonomous driving.
Drop bear defended were poor. No visibility directly overhead.
can the same concept be reversed on the toob speaker to give 360 planar dispersion for outside (and indoor) use?
instead of light wave energy reflected into a camera, reflect sound wave energy out off the back side of a speaker?
that way you could have the directional audience dispersion forward of the speaker and the band can hear the dispersed noise From the back side of the cabinet?
It’s not too different to the concept in that Bose speaker image before. I think some of those JBL portable Bluetooth speakers do something similar to cap the ends of their speakers.
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Mike, the open-back Toob 12J is probably more omnidirectional than any other cab in the caliber. Part of the explanation is the lack of a baffle around the speaker. Smaller speakers offer broader projection and less of a treble spike. One solution is to use one cab pointing upward (for the band) and another towards the audience. Simple and still just 10 lbs (6.5" caliber) to 20 lbs (12") cargo.
In 2014-15 I made several quite complex prototypes trying to control the speaker's back wave and spread it in all directions. With my then skills and knowledge, they failed or were just too difficult to make. As hinted in a previous post, there's one or two ideas I'm still hatching. This thread may have rekindled something already archived. Power need, weight, complexity and bass response all factor in. After all, we're talking of instruments rather than furniture here. Broader shoulders and external funding would help. I've already spent too much of my kids' inheritance into this folly. However, I don't want to owe anything to anybody except myself.
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Let the Angels hear it, I say! Originally Posted by Gitterbug
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That long speaker cable is probably more expensive than the cab! Originally Posted by pcjazz
Here's my Toob 10T at rehearsal band. I put it in the centre of the room with a long cable to my Milkman 100 pedal amp. Everyone can hear it at fairly low volume.
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looks like I couldn’t use those vertical legs with my basic toob metro .... Originally Posted by Gitterbug
I’d need the mounting holes on the back
plate which I don’t have on mine
is that correct ?
ps yes the superblock looks good on there ....
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Any longer and I’d have latency issues! The band is spread out according to Covid rules, makes it hard to keep the rhythm section in sync. Originally Posted by marcwhy
That long speaker cable is probably more expensive than the cab!
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You can make long speaker cable for a reasonable price. Home improvement stores sell electric cable as extension cords or on bulk rolls, sold by the foot. True, it comes with an extra conductor, but that's easily cut off. If the cable will carry 110VAC at high currents, it will carry audio current fine. You need end connectors, but those are easily available. I prefer SpeakOn connectors, because they easily allow use of heavy cable and they won't short when connected to the amp or the cabinet. The few cabinets I've ever bought with 1/4" jacks I immediately converted to SpeakOn. If an amp has only 1/4" outputs, I use an adapter pigtail.
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Correct. Your version has four portholes and barely enough wood for the sockets. This is all nitty-gritty, so I've sent you an e-mail. Originally Posted by pingu
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Originally Posted by pcjazz
Here's my Toob 10T at rehearsal band. I put it in the centre of the room with a long cable to my Milkman 100 pedal amp. Everyone can hear it at fairly low volume.
Mars Insight lander (I'm sorry, I can't resist)
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Warning, a bit of a personal rant:
I've been getting along fine now with my Quilter combos, Bud 6, and Genzlers. At my advanced age, I'm more concerned about $ going towards my health, maintaining the homestead, and toward a retirement from the day job.
But this is a whole 'nother issue. At what point/age do you cut back tremendously on gear because of living logistics? I've been in the northeast my whole life, all my contacts and music biz is here. Gigging almost every week. If I move south, what do I take? No more roomy studio in the house? Who to connect with? Theater work? Just give it all up? That would kill me.
What I'd REALLY like is a Quilter combo with an adjustable tweeter. One amp. For now if I use the Quilter I have to bring and attach my Henriksen Tweety if I need the amp to do elec and acous.
<rant over>
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I’d love to learn more about this. I suspect the execution is more involved than the idea, but why did this take so long? Curious which four established names? How close are they and when might these make their debut? Refinement of class D designs has evolved substantially, some might say revolutionized, in the bass amplification arena. (As someone who schlepped an SVT around for a few years, I don’t think that’s too strong a statement). I would think there’s market share to be gained in the electric guitar side of things with the tube preamp/class D power amp approach. Originally Posted by EastwoodMike
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Haha! My Hungarian reseller posted a photo of a similar Toob 10T telescopic standing upright on a meadow and called it a garden barbecue. Originally Posted by supersoul
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thanks Gitter Originally Posted by Gitterbug
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yes ! Originally Posted by EastwoodMike
I think that will nail it for me too ....
it will be interesting to see what appears
on the market
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Another is down-firing. I’ve built a few frames with legs that held a cabinet face down and at varying heights above the floor. I once put threaded insets in each corner of the baffle of a 12” cabinet into which I could screw furniture legs to hold it face down like a small 4 legged table. This is just a variation of my long time practice of pointing my speaker at the wall behind the stage or performance area for wide diffusion with no beaming. Originally Posted by Gitterbug
I found downward firing to work very well on firm, smooth flooring. Carpet cuts diffusion and alters frequency response audibly and unpredictably - only some of the shortest napped, hardest industrial carpets and mats work for this. But wood, tile etc really spread your sound in most rooms. There are plant stands that are simply rimmed rings on legs. With a ring of cork or other non-marring non-slip material on it, a Toob would sit nicely on one and fire downward.
I also wonder if the downward firing rear port(s) aren’t an important part of the benefit of upward firing of the driver. Those ports release a lot of acoustic energy.
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that’s very interesting you’ve tried that
downfiring onto various surfaces
its only a step away from downfiring
onto a (conical ?) waveguide ....
a ‘waterfall’ of sound
which my my instinct tells me might
give even better dispersion in the horizontal plane
i hope that sketch makes sense !
the dotted lines are legs (or some kind of acoustically transparent
support , a grill maybe)
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Fun facts for reference:
I remember an interview with Randy Bachman where he mentioned how he already in the '60s, in the studio, flipped a Tweed Deluxe on its back on a carpet, speaker towards the ceiling, and sometimes experimented with the amp laying flat on its face, open back up.
This pioneer and hall of fame inductee is still gigging, I think he's even doing some "Jazz" these days. Respect.
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Yes they are, and that's what happens with the upward-firing Toobs. But with them, that's just an option; they all are meant to be played in normal, slightly inclined position as a default. Originally Posted by nevershouldhavesoldit
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Pingu, your sketch makes perfect sense. But can't it be inverted 180 degrees? I may be wrong but I believe that what you call waveguides are the more efficient the higher the frequency, so the dispersed/"broadcast" sound is more trebly than the original. What I have no idea of is the optimal density of the waveguide material, i.e. would a skimpy trumpet-shaped plastic deflector work or would it have to be a heavy chunk of precision-turned metal? My experience so far suggests that volumes and shapes matter more than materials in cab design. Originally Posted by pingu
that’s very interesting you’ve tried that
downfiring onto various surfaces
its only a step away from downfiring
onto a (conical ?) waveguide ....
a ‘waterfall’ of sound
which my my instinct tells me might
give even better dispersion in the horizontal plane
i hope that sketch makes sense !
the dotted lines are legs (or some kind of acoustically transparent
support , a grill maybe)
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Acoustic Image has an upward-firing cabinet:
Didn't they have one with a pair of 10" speakers (Ten-two or something like that) that had one down-firing? Googles... The Ten2:
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