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I searched this on our forum and only found one discussion from a while ago about cedar creek vs other types of cases. But while looking for something online, i found a classical guitar discussion, with pix, of damage done to finishes due to Cedar Creek 'gassing' inside. There was one reference to that on our forum post, but mostly praise. My wonderful Campellone came in a CC case; it is a very tight fit, and i just wondered if i should be concerned about this? The guitar is 2015 iirc, so the case might be same era. I don't see any evidence on the guitar, tho the internal padding shows a few areas that seem a bit discolored.... Any counsel other than keep it out of the case or in a gig bag? I'm going to ask Mark as well. TIA and Merry Christmas!
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12-24-2021 10:57 AM
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Wow, for a case that costs so much, it had better not hurt the guitar!
Not sure where you live, but if it's dry -- especially during the winter months -- you'll need to make sure your room is humidified if you keep the guitar out. Or buy an inexpensive case/bag for storing, and use the CC for traveling/gigs?
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I have some Cedar Creek cases in which the padding has become discolored with no effect on the guitar that it has housed for years.
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Mark Campellone replied almost immediately with (as always) helpful advice. He has seen the inner liner discoloration occasionally with no effect on the guitar. (now that i think about it, the first post about this i saw had to do with French polish on classical guitars). Mark said to be safe, i could line the case with an old cotton sheet which i'll do; tho there seems to be no issue on my guitar. And this is good reason to leave this wonderful guitar out on the stand. (yes, my house and music room are humidity controlled in NC)
Merry Christmas to all and thanks so much Mark for your help!
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Issues with Cedar Creek cases are well known and widespread. (I have one too)
I would advise anyone who owns one to line the case with some other cloth or get another case. By the time you notice the green color bleeding into the binding it will be too late. It cannot be removed.
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if your guitar and case are five years old you’ve probably escaped the one issue that occurs, but using that cotton sheet is still a good idea.
Originally Posted by stringmann
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My green lined CC case stained my 2019 Campellone Special. I replaced the case with a new Gibson L5 case. No more problem.
I also bought a L5 case and sent it to Mark for my Campellone V1K.
I sent the CC case back to Mark. He sent it back to CC and they still charged him to reline it. They are a well made case but not if it stains your guitar.
Mark also told me they just doubled the price so now he uses TKL cases.
He still uses the CC for his Cameo model.
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I have a Sunburst 2005 Super400 with greenlined CC case. There is no bleed at all that I can see and I have had the guitar 2 years and of course it is 22 years old soon. I would think I am fine but I will take any opinions or experiences similar situations.
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it seems to be hit and miss. Forensic root cause analysis would be helpful but don’t hold your breath. New lacquer and new dye would seem to be it, but who will step forward with full transparency? Originally Posted by deacon Mark
cotton sheet.
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Actually you can tell by smelling the felt lining. Both on my Campellone and S400 the CC felt had a toxic smell to it.
You make it past the 2-3 year mark you are most likely good to go IMO.
Some CC cases have no problems and some stain like a mofo.
From what Mark told me it was different glues they used.
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Different glues, different batches of the lining material sources by CC, new vs. older nitro finish vs. other finishes like poly, maybe even ambient temperature and/or humidity could all be factors.
IMHO instrument cases should have undyed linings (and the outer covering should be white, too), but neither of those options is popular.
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I don’t think this problem is unique to CC. I have had it happen with other brands of cases too. My feeling is that it may be an issue with the dark colored “crushed” padding you see so often these days. I recently sold a 2008 L5CES, which had a small amount of red bleed from its original Gibson case. It was a Canadian-made case, which I believe is the same as those marketed under the name TKL. Originally Posted by Cunamara
Keith
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of all the vintage guitars I've owned, prewar tweed w/pink interior, postwar brown w/pink, black w/yellow, even 70's black/burgundy and I've never seen this issue. it must be a modern problem....
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If the case is off-gassing, does a bed sheet really stop the problem?
In fact, if it can bleed through a finish, why not a bed sheet?
I don't have a CC case, but if I did, I don't think I'd store old cans of paint in it.
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Guitar cases have been a perennial a weak point for the guitar industry for a long time. Fitment issues, VOCs from materials of construction and lining leachates transference into guitar finishes have occurred all too frequently. Players in general are unwilling to pay the premium for a quality flight case (many don’t need this level of protection). I own cases made by the following companies.
Ameritage
BAM
Harptone
Hiscox
Hoffee
TKL
Visesnut
TKL also manufacturers both Cedar Creek and Harptone brand cases as well. During the pandemic they have been way behind is order fulfillment. None are perfect and all have their pros and cons. I use my cases to transport instruments and not to stor instruments in. I humidify the room that they live in. Guitars that are out tend to get played. Playeds will spend $5,000, $10,000 or more on an instrument yet most are unwilling to spend another 10% to protect it.
For an archtop, a Jumbo Visesnut Active Series is a nice option. Light weight, protective and adjustable. Not cheap, but not Calton, Hoffee or Karura expensive. For luthiers like Mark, they discount highly (like 40%) on orders > 10 cases I believe.
Visesnutcase : Jumbo guitar case Active series Dark Gray
For less than that, Hiscox is also an option.
Jumbo Style Guitar Cases – hiscoxcases
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yes it actually works. It stopped mine in its tracks. Same case. Originally Posted by rpjazzguitar
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I have never seen it with a vintage guitar, only with a relatively new guitar. I think the fresh finish might be more susceptible to absorbing dye. I also had black dye from clothing stain the guitar around the binding when I played a fairly new guitar on a long gig in a very hot/ humid setting. I think it’s more to do with the guitar than the case. Originally Posted by wintermoon
Keith
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maybe, but the vintage guitars had new finish in the beginning. it probably has more to do w/the modern materials the cases are made with. Originally Posted by floatingpickup
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Let us not forget that vintage guitars had true “nitro” lacquer that gassed a lot more.
Modern nitro is a different formula that flashes quicker and has polymers added.
I have been buying guitars since 1972. Never a bleed problem ever till I bought guitars with CC cases.
Mark C. has used CC cases for years. I have seen countless used Campellone’s that had some staining. Mark uses Mohawk nitro. My 2 newer Campellone’s are NOT in CC cases and no bleed whatsoever.
Also when I put my Special in a Gibson case no more bleed.
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Many luthiers use Mohawk (as you say Mark does) but equally as many use Cardinal as well. That is only part of it. Different builders will have different solvent let down ratios, different application and drying schedules. Different builders have differing ratios of solvent and many times have higher ratios for their penultimate coats to ensure that they adhere well to the undercoats and minimize the chances of bubble entrapment.
Most reputable builders wait at least 4-weeks from last coat before buffing, assembly and set-up. So 5-6 weeks is common before a guitar first sees its case. There is continued outgassing for months from a nitro finish, so it is best NOT to leave a new guitar in its case. The VOCs can react unfortunately with some dyes used and migration can occur particularly with lower cost cases where the manufacture does not control the dyes used by their lining material suppliers.
Older cases used silk velvet, then Rayon based velvets after WWII and today a variety of fibers (even cottons & wools) are used. Much of the Dye migration that I have see. happen, most often with lower cost cases made by larger manufactures like TKL. I avoid them for this reason.
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Bill Hollenbeck said he liked to put last coat on the guitar and simply hang in up in the shop. He said the minimum time was 3 weeks and frankly waiting as you said 6 weeks was best even longer. The longer the better. Originally Posted by iim7V7IM7
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Yes, the longer the better…. Originally Posted by deacon Mark
Luthiers are trying to balance getting the guitar to their anxious clients (and getting paid) with the finish adequately evaporating and hardening. I have seen case lining impressions left in finishes that were shipped to soon as well. In addition to drying time, time to fit a bridge, tailpiece, finger, electronics and a good set up add time from the spray booth to the case. I also always leave instruments with a luthier an extra week after they are setup and complete to let them settle in under tension so final setup adjustments can be made.
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I remember going through this when Vinny's original nightmare occurred. I immediately ran to my Campellone and extracted it from it's Cedar Creek case and examined it, and found no staining whatsoever.
That's been a while. Although I give her a good workout on a fairly regular basis, and always spend quality time and think I know pretty much everything about her, this thread still managed to create some unnecessary concern. She's still as beautiful as ever! No white sheets needed here.
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Just thought I'd add what I said in the other post. I have a 2013 archtop that got case bleed from a Guardian (China?) case, so it's not just CC. This one is green inside, and I don't think it's a nitro finish. I'm leaning more and more to VOC's in the case materials.
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Correction - I've had Cedar Creek re-line 3 or 4 problem cases for me, and they did not charge me for the work nor for the return shipping - Originally Posted by vinnyv1k
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