What to look for in Epiphone ES-175?

[kstinehour]

Hi all,

I know that there is a certain version of the Epiphone ES-175 that's of higher quality than the others, and that's supposedly the ES-175 premium. When I Google "Epiphone ES-175 premium" most of the results are for the reissue. Are these the same thing? Or is there something better I can search for that would yield better results?

[John A.]

Hi all,

I know that there is a certain version of the Epiphone ES-175 that's of higher quality than the others, and that's supposedly the ES-175 premium. When I Google "Epiphone ES-175 premium" most of the results are for the reissue. Are these the same thing? Or is there something better I can search for that would yield better results?

ES-175 Premium is the one. Some people may confuse the issue by also calling it a reissue, and others may confuse the issue by mis-naming the non-premium versions, which complicates searches. The trick is to look closely at the specs. The Premium has a satin (i.e., non-shiny) nitrocellulose finish and Gibson Classic 57 pickups; the non-premiums have generic Epi pickups and a glossy polyester finish. There are some other subtle differences in appearance (e.g., the bursts look different), and the Premiums also come in Natural, Walnut, Black, and Red, whereas (I think), the non-Premiums only come in burst). Do some image searches on "Epiphone ES-175" with and without "Premium" and after a while you can spot the differences.

[citizenk74]

Hi all,

I know that there is a certain version of the Epiphone ES-175 that's of higher quality than the others, and that's supposedly the ES-175 premium. When I Google "Epiphone ES-175 premium" most of the results are for the reissue. Are these the same thing? Or is there something better I can search for that would yield better results?

John A.'s post, as usual, sums things up nicely.

[kstinehour]

ES-175 Premium is the one. Some people may confuse the issue by also calling it a reissue, and others may confuse the issue by mis-naming the non-premium versions, which complicates searches. The trick is to look closely at the specs. The Premium has a satin (i.e., non-shiny) nitrocellulose finish and Gibson Classic 57 pickups; the non-premiums have generic Epi pickups and a glossy polyester finish. There are some other subtle differences in appearance (e.g., the bursts look different), and the Premiums also come in Natural, Walnut, Black, and Red, whereas (I think), the non-Premiums only come in burst). Do some image searches on "Epiphone ES-175" with and without "Premium" and after a while you can spot the differences.

How do you feel about getting the non-premium and sticking the Gibson pickups in it? It's not so much a budget issue as it is an availability issue.

[kstinehour]

How do you feel about getting the non-premium and sticking the Gibson pickups in it? It's not so much a budget issue as it is an availability issue.

Or like, getting an Eastman and sticking the Gibson pickups in it?

[John A.]

How do you feel about getting the non-premium and sticking the Gibson pickups in it? It's not so much a budget issue as it is an availability issue.

Or like, getting an Eastman and sticking the Gibson pickups in it?

My sense is that pickups aren't the heart of the matter. I think it's that Gibson makes their laminated guitars out of a particular plywood and and bracing pattern that gives them a specific sound (a kind of percussiveness and emphasis in the mid-range (that people around here refer to as "thunk" onomatopoeically). If you listen to 175's, Barney Kessels, ES 300/350s, Tal Farlows, ES 125s, they all have this core similarity to their tone; a Gibson ES 175 with a humbucker or with a P90 still sounds like a 175. The Epi ES-175 Premium is the only one of the Epiphone laminated archtops that really nails this. The others have a different core sound to them. Ditto for the Eastman ar371/372, which brighter, and closer to the sound of their carved top guitars than to a 175. I don't think switching from one PAF-style pick-up to another can change the basic characteristic tone of the instrument.

[Esport]

For what it’s worth, I had a non-premium Epi 175 and after switching out all the electronics and the neck pup for a Stewmac Golden Age PAF, it was a really nice-sounding guitar. Felt good, looked pretty good (hate that poly) and sounded classic. All in I think I dropped about $500 after acquiring the guitar and buying all the new parts.

[citizenk74]

My sense is that pickups aren't the heart of the matter. I think it's that Gibson makes their laminated guitars out of a particular plywood and and bracing pattern that gives them a specific sound (a kind of percussiveness and emphasis in the mid-range (that people around here refer to as "thunk" onomatopoeically). If you listen to 175's, Barney Kessels, ES 300/350s, Tal Farlows, ES 125s, they all have this core similarity to their tone; a Gibson ES 175 with a humbucker or with a P90 still sounds like a 175. The Epi ES-175 Premium is the only one of the Epiphone laminated archtops that really nails this. The others have a different core sound to them. Ditto for the Eastman ar371/372, which brighter, and closer to the sound of their carved top guitars than to a 175. I don't think switching from one PAF-style pick-up to another can change the basic characteristic tone of the instrument.

A luthier friend informed me that poplar (the filling in the maple/poplar/maple sandwich that Gibson uses) is a "tone sucker" that is, a non resonant wood. I used that knowledge to build a speaker cabinet to house a 15" JBL taken from a Dual Showman cabinet. Five-quarter (1 1/4") Cucumber Poplar heartwood was surfaced just enough to be smooth and the lovely jade-like timber generously coated with some kind of waterproof epoxy stuff. The chamber itself had a 1" port at the bottom and measured 24"x18"x12" (interior measurements, excluding the 1/2" plywood baffle to which the speaker was affixed. The JBL was mounted high, 3" from the top and 3" from each side. The resultant cabinet weighed a ton and sounded fantastic. No buzzes or rattles or boominess to be heard. Powered by a JBL-loaded Music Man 112 RD (2-6L6s), the open back 12" and the infinite baffled 15" spoke with clarity, authority, and punch. Clean for days, distortion shades to die for, and the Best.Reverb.Ever. My '64 ES-345TDSTVT never sounded better. Letting that set-up go was the stupidest thing I ever did, musically. Alas!

[John A.]

A luthier friend informed me that poplar (the filling in the maple/poplar/maple sandwich that Gibson uses) is a "tone sucker" that is, a non resonant wood. I used that knowledge to build a speaker cabinet to house a 15" JBL taken from a Dual Showman cabinet. Five-quarter (1 1/4") Cucumber Poplar heartwood was surfaced just enough to be smooth and the lovely jade-like timber generously coated with some kind of waterproof epoxy stuff. The chamber itself had a 1" port at the bottom and measured 24"x18"x12" (interior measurements, excluding the 1/2" plywood baffle to which the speaker was affixed. The JBL was mounted high, 3" from the top and 3" from each side. The resultant cabinet weighed a ton and sounded fantastic. No buzzes or rattles or boominess to be heard. Powered by a JBL-loaded Music Man 112 RD (2-6L6s), the open back 12" and the infinite baffled 15" spoke with clarity, authority, and punch. Clean for days, distortion shades to die for, and the Best.Reverb.Ever. My '64 ES-345TDSTVT never sounded better. Letting that set-up go was the stupidest thing I ever did, musically. Alas!

The bit about poplar being non-resonant makes sense in the context of the Gibson lam sound.

[Jim Soloway]

A very timely discussion. Two Epiphone 175's have come up for sale here in the last 24 hours (after seeing none for a long time). The first is a "Limited Edition Custom Shop" for $700. The second is a Premium for $1200. The photos are not really great in either ad so I was wondering what the difference was. Now it makes some sense.

[sgosnell]

$1200 for a used Premium seems high, even in Canadian dollars. Mine has too much sentimental value to sell even at that price, though.

[Jim Soloway]

$1200 for a used Premium seems high, even in Canadian dollars. Mine has too much sentimental value to sell even at that price, though.

It's $930 US. Honestly I don't know enough bout these guitars to know what prices ought to be but prices here are often higher that the US even after currency is considered.

[LifeOnJazz]

$1200 CAD is high for used. I saw the same listing today Jim. It peaked my interest but not at that price. These sold new for $1100+tax at L&M. Over the past couple years I've seen two used 175 Premiums locally going for $800-900 CAD which is more reasonable.

[Jim Soloway]

$1200 CAD is high for used. I saw the same listing today Jim. It peaked my interest but not at that price. These sold new for $1100+tax at L&M. Over the past couple years I've seen two used 175 Premiums locally going for $800-900 CAD which is more reasonable.

The rational part of my brain says it really doesn't matter. This is not a guitar that is likely to really work for me anyway. Now that little Archtop Tribute that was one the for sale forum here, that's a guitar that I could get some use out of (although it appears that someone has already bought it).