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I posted something about this yesterday but thought the better of it and deleted my post but this is still bothering me so I've decided to try again.
I don't understand all the hate being dumped on this guitar. Yes, the price is absurd but it's a creative work by a very talented and respected builder and supported by Fender. I think it's an interesting result. I especially like the the use of a more traditional bridge and tailpiece. But whether you like it or not, the question remains: why hate on it?
Society is way too full of hate these days and the internet has become a mirror of that, probably because anger on the internet seems (falsely) to lack consequences. I speak only for myself, but I'm finding social media and discussion forums really uncomfortable to frequent these days. I'd like to believe that this particular forum can be an escape from that, but maybe not.
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10-25-2021 08:27 AM
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Jim:
Originally Posted by Jim Soloway
I guess I came on too strong with my post. It was just my immediate reaction, mostly as a result of the extremely high asking price. Since then, I have watched the video about the guitar and I have more respect for it now. I actually really like the wood and the finish, which truly does look like a vintage violin. I still find it to be an odd combination which probably wouldn’t be for me, but I appreciate the workmanship and the passion that went into making it. I agree with your feelings about all the the hate and negativity on the internet these days. It concerns me too and I am not one to spread it. In this case, I thought I was being funny, but it obviously didn’t come off that way. Thanks for pointing out how my (since deleted) comment looked from the reader’s perspective. I love this forum and have made a number of friends here. I do think we are a friendly group of people who share a common interest and we can’t afford to lose members like you, who have so much knowledge to share.
Keith
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It's not complicated. People like what they like and don't like what they don't like. There is no "right" or "wrong" here. Comparing people not liking this particular tele to a "society way too full of hate" is pushing it quite a bit, I think. Like it? Buy it. Don't like it? Don't buy it. Someone else doesn't like it? Why do you care? Originally Posted by Jim Soloway
Personally, I think it's terribly ugly. I don't even care what it sounds like. And that's ok. I'm allowed to have an opinion, just like everyone is.
Even if it were a fantastic custom shop guitar for $600 new, I still wouldn't like it, because it looks like it has been beaten with an ugly stick. AND THAT'S OK.
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There is a difference between not liking something and being hateful. Those are not the same thing and I would not suggest that they are. What I saw in this thread was about the latter, not the former. Originally Posted by ruger9
It's not complicated. People like what they like and don't like what they don't like. There is no "right" or "wrong" here. Comparing people not liking this particular tele to a "society way too full of hate" is pushing it quite a bit, I think. Like it? Buy it. Don't like it? Don't buy it. Someone else doesn't like it? Why do you care?
Personally, I think it's terribly ugly. I don't even care what it sounds like. And that's ok. I'm allowed to have an opinion, just like everyone is.
Even if it were a fantastic custom shop guitar for $600 new, I still wouldn't like it, because it looks like it has been beaten with an ugly stick. AND THAT'S OK.
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I feel the way Jim does about the Strad Tele. It looks, to me, like a heck of a guitar. All other things being equal, I would very much like the guitar. Of course, the price places the instrument beyond the realm of a hack like me. It's a hedge fund manager's guitar, for sure.
Still, it's a super concept--price aside.
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Where? I just re-read the thread, and found no evidence of "hatred/hatefulness"? Originally Posted by Jim Soloway
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Worthy and admirable to appreciate the best intentions in craft, especially craft that empowers the making of music. Thanks for that recentering.
It’s also possible, and legitimate, to be bewildered by a corporate giant monetizing the use of sanders, chisels, hammers and whatnot to market the notion of “relic” instead of building the best instruments they can. There are no relic’d or steampunked Soloways (or Forshage, NK Forster, Grez, Kuun, to name a few from my guitar room): that, at its root, would constitute avaricious cynicism.
That’s what I deplore about this limited edition and its pricetag—it just appears to be a different vehicle for Fender up-marketing false relics.
I don’t live in that world, never lived in that world, and don’t respect the commodification of false idols in the slightest. I can’t imagine what it costs the people who do the relicking, to use skill to deface an instrument.
If my first good guitar—a ‘59-61ish sunburst Strat with a rosewood fretboard, bought for $90 in 1969 from Charlie elderly the pawn shop guitar tech, who beat it up in Mexico during his last touring gig—appeared before me now, unimproved since then, and asked, What am I worth you now? I would consider a five figure withdrawal from savings to bring it home and either let it have peace, or spend more to make it playable. Nothing cosmetic though. But in 1971, a canny older guitarist offered me a brand new Strat in trade, and I took it.
I regret contributing any sarcasm to this thread, though. Sarcasm mostly departed my critical toolkit over the course of a decade of recovery, but sometimes shows up when I’m writing in smartypants mode. The luthier probably deserves well, or better than corporate boilerplate, e.g. a Fender neck bolt plate. Maybe he’ll leave Fender on whatever strength this design affords, if he can afford to forego salary and retirement perks, and he can build its purest expression (without adding dental pick dings) and charge what the Monteleones and Ribbeckes and Dream Guitars luthiers can charge.
PS—though many know this. Chamber string players don’t flinch at $30k for a good instrument, or $5-10K for a good bow. Linn my violist wife and I met a guy at Ifshin Violins in El Cerrito who was taking home a $250k violin to try out; he had a major orchestra chair. Linn was there comparing 3 violas that ranged from $5-30k. (But later settled on one from Roland Feller’s San Francisco shop.) It’s impossible for me to imagine a strings player shopping for an instrument at that level— and then buying it — because it featured gratuitous defacement at an upcharge.Last edited by rhl-ferndale; 10-25-2021 at 12:01 PM.
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Then I suppose we will have to agree to disagree. Originally Posted by ruger9
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Pricing aside, my issues (if they can be called that) are more with fender and the reasoning behind the guitar than the first itself. Why fender would try to associate themselves with Stradivarius... isn't immediately clear.
The guitar itself is what it is. There are things about it I like and things I don't. It's interesting and unique to be sure, and I'd love to hear it (the TV Jones are very intriguing). But in a general sense, similar concepts have been more successfully explored by hofner and even guild, to my mind. Though I would be curious to see if anything comes of this. A line of hollow teles could be fun to see one day.
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It is vulgar: a thing made to look like another thing, roughed up for faux authenticity, promoted as a tribute to craftsmanship and sold it a ludicrous price.
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Yeah, that's my emotional reaction too LOL. However, if I picked one up, and if it sounded and felt great, and if it was affordable, I might buy one, if I fell instantly in love with it. Originally Posted by Litterick
What's the over/under on 4 "ifs" ?
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I am not a Fender expert, but the builder of this guitar has created a number of incredible guitars based on various other instruments or objects. His Faberge Strat is immediately one that comes to mind. The Works of Yuriy Shishkov - Fender's Master Luthier | Electric Herald Originally Posted by feet
His Studioliner is another guitar that harkens to something else, a Kodak camera: Fender Custom Shop NAMM Prestige Studioliner Stratocaster Masterbuit by Yuriy Shishkov - Wild West Guitars
While Yuriy certainly builds "regular" CS guitars (Wildwood has one right now listed for over $7K), something like this is more akin to functional art (IMO, of course) than just a guitar. And I think that's part of the beauty in what he creates. Not for me most times, but I very much respect and often times admire the output.
I make zero judgement on relics or tributes or whatever. A guitar that speaks to an individual and allows expression is a great guitar. A guitar that someone can display purely as art is also just fine by me.
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If I were a Romanov... Originally Posted by JSanta
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Imagine that in this joke, James Corden is Fender and Stewart Lee is Stradivarius.
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Jim Soloway the internet is like going to a bar in the old days. You get your favorite beverage get comfy and talk about other people.Just like back in High School
Im guilty as charged, and I do think you have a point when it goes too far in a hurtful way. But Fender deserves the negative press on this one and many others for selling ad men marketing to non players . Especially when they invoke true craftsman of the past.
In a way the same as when Kenny G put himself on a Louis Armstrong recording, YUCK!!!!
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I haven't been in a bar as a patron in over 30 years. I have no interest in a virtual recreation of that environment at this point in my life. I like to believe that we can be better than that. Maybe that's misplaced idealism but I've seen enough ugliness in this lifetime that I don't feel like embracing more of it just for shits and giggles. Originally Posted by jads57
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I’ve stopped being concerned about what others play.
Why do so many feel that they need to have the last word?
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Jim it’s the nature if the beast unfortunately, and while I applaud your moral convictions, the genie is already out of the bottle.
I try and be okay with both negative and positive comments. There is no perfect solution other than banning all negative comments.
And then it would totally disingenuous as well.
My feeling is it’s life and we need to let each rave on sometimes. Just like we do with our friends group. It’s just words and we all have emotions after all. Otherwise we’d be awful musicians.
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I love the aesthetics of a Strad violin. As a luthier who learned from a violin builder, I respect the elegant function that is the evolution of the form, and the signs of wear and aging that were earned through many many years of music; the consequence of a story being told as it was intended by the maker, aged over time and tested through the players and listeners for centuries.
For me, the discipline, function and realized sound is the beauty of the Strad. Form follows function. But guitarists have a tendency to incorporate the cache of other objects (finishes inspired by cars, duplicate copies that look like another person's scratch by scratch guitar...) and I find it strange that these things assign a greater value on the superficiality than the function.
Hmmm, at that price tag, you could get an incredible custom built instrument that is a reflexion of your playing abilities. I suppose that's the crux of the biscuit: There are novelty collectors who see guitars as visual objects that tickle the fancies, and there are players who spend their time with the tool that serves the music with elegance.
To each there are the objects that serve. Rolex watch, hand made function taken to a beautiful conclusion. Rolex knock-off, designed to sell the vibe-can I sell you one for $30K?
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Jim, maybe it's people questioning the questionable tastes and motives by Fender, a company with one big eye on marketing. A long time ago I saw a duo with Chuck Wayne and Joe Puma. That's when I first saw and heard an early Benedetto that used a binding-less top and back, like a violin. It sounded amazing (in worthy hands). Originally Posted by Jim Soloway
Maybe that's where I saw a beautiful melding of violin and guitar aesthetics. It didn't seem at all like a superficial abomination. I really got it. The Fender? I for one don't get it.
I don't hate it. I just don't get it.
Benedetto
Fender
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Aw, c’mon guys - give ‘em a break. In the words of their celebrity endorsers, it’s a little bit country…..
And I agree with Jim. Of course, I’m the one trying to invent a fish based dessert, just to see if I can come up with one.
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Gibson is guilty of the same thing. In fact there is another thread running on this same topic. I feel like I just repeated myself somehow. Originally Posted by Litterick
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I understand the appeal of the Benedetto but as someone who has spent most of my life playing planks I can pretty safely say that if you put these two guitars in front of me and asked me to play one, I'd almost certainly reach for the Fender first if only because I know that the form factor pretty much guarantees that I'd be more comfortable and I prefer the longer scale length. And FWIW, the more I look at this Fender, the more I like it. It reminds me of a very special guitar merging a Tele Shape and Gretsch construction and aesthetics that TV Jones built for Brian Setzer about 20 years ago. Originally Posted by Jimmy blue note
Jim, maybe it's people questioning the questionable tastes and motives by Fender, a company with one big eye on marketing. A long time ago I saw a duo with Chuck Wayne and Joe Puma. That's when I first saw and heard an early Benedetto that used a binding-less top and back, like a violin. It sounded amazing (in worthy hands).
Maybe that's where I saw a beautiful melding of violin and guitar aesthetics. It didn't seem at all like a superficial abomination. I really got it. The Fender? I for one don't get it.
I don't hate it. I just don't get it.
Benedetto
Fender
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I think when it comes to including violin like aesthetics to guitars, Dan Koentopp does it better than anybody.
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Your missing the point. To compare yourself to the greats is pretty wrong in the first place. Secondly to use the persons works to sell yours especially without their permission is absolutely a no no!
Bad enough rap artists appropriate Clyde Stubblefield and others works without credit or pay. But this is totally past that as well.
This is the part of how technology in music is too easily abused by others, without any boundaries both morally and legally.
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Chunking, does it work for Jazz improv?
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