Nylon String as Main Jazz Guitar

[Cunamara]

You can play any style of music on any guitar.

Personally I think that the tone-knob-rolled-off thing in jazz guitar is looking for that warmth and richness that comes naturally with nylon strings. It's really evident on some of the Jim Hall things with Art Farmer and Paul Desmond.

One of my favorite instruments is my Rick Turner Renaissance RN-6 nylon string. It's semi-hollow and plugged in sounds more acoustic than any acoustic-electric classical I have ever heard (18V pickup system gives a lot more headroom- some of the piezo quack we hate is actually distortion at the top end of the attack).

[docbop]

Why not Jazz is a musical language and you're just speaking with an accent.

[jads57]

[vintagelove]

For me, it would compromise my playing. At bebop speeds, I do a lot of economy picking. I'm not sure I could do it with the extra distance between strings.

That being said, you could certainly develop your own vocabulary that works well on the instrument.


Just a last thought. I would work out how to amplify yourself now so you are ready if the situation arises.

Good luck.

[oldane]

I see no reason at all why it can't be done. Like said above, any music can be played on any instrument. Double bass players play bebop solos too, so the wider string spacing can be handled after a little practice.

[TH]

I play a 15" flat top nylon with a double X brace, 14 fret join, cutaway and narrower neck. It's a design that does it all for me. Yes I play anything I played with steel, and the expressive range of that instrument is so wide.
I think it's possible you'd find that nylon does it for you. Find or commission an instrument that gets you what you want in a guitar and then adapt your technique and interpretive creativity so the music comes out.
I too began with classical and I loved the sound, feel and range, but the neck, fret access, attack and body depth couldn't compete with an archtop which I came to play for decades. Then I designed and built what I needed and I'm happy.

That's jazz
David

[targuit]

I want to get a Slaman nylon string archtop or something like the Elferink nylon string guitars. David, I had sent you a PM in that regard the other day. I want to get up to Boston one of these days to check out the best instrument stores in the area for this type of guitar. I have thought about commissioning one but that might certainly entail greater time and expense. Are you a luthier as well as teacher and proprietor?

Happy Thanksgiving, btw!

[KirkP]

It works for Paul Meyers.

[D.G.]

I have a friend who uses a Taylor nylon and he sounds great on it! And remember, you don't need to throw away your pick just because you're playing nylon strings.

[I_88]

Thanks everyone for the help and the advice, really appreciate it!

I played some tele jazz before and loved it.. but when I first tried nylon, I just got hooked, very expressive sound..

Just thought I'd post here and ask whether the folks here like to play bebop on nylon, as I've heard it's hard enough already on an electric..

I'm used to the wider neck on my classical pretty fine, but i just cant seem to ditch the pick most of the times.. at least not when playing lines/soloing.. it makes me wonder whether I'm missing out on something sound wise.. I mean the majority of classical/nylon players normally use their fingers after all..

[WillMbCdn5]

I am using a nylon string guitar for jazz - albeit an unusual one - a Frameworks - played finger style. Something I have been recently exploring is different string maker/type combinations and their effect on tone and playability. When I discovered I could buy bass and treble sets seperately I was off and exploring

For my own taste I have settled on a combination of Aquila Alabasatro nylgut trebles in Normal tension and La Bella Argento pure silver bass strings in Hard tension for my guitar.

I tried regular nylon trebles and they sounded " plasticy" and the pure silver bass string just had the kind of clarity that I was looking for in the lower range than any other string I tried.

while I am using strings from different makers the combination string tension feel the same/balanced and respond nicely to how I use my right hand.

I am sure there are folks here who have done the same who may chime in - that said the classical forums are a great source of opinions on strings/combos/ their effect on tone...............

It can really change the sound and playability of a particular guitar it seems

hope that helps

Will

[Flat]

Playing octaves on an archtop with humbuckers like Wes was never a thing until cats like Wes played octaves on an archtop with humbuckers.

Blaze your own trail. It's the only way to keep jazz alive.

[2bornot2bop]

I was going to say, if Bossa Nova jazz is commonly done on Nylon string, why not Bebop.

[Greentone]

I understand Vintagelove's sentiment. If you play on, say, a Paul Reed Smith with low action, a classical guitar with 26" scale, 2" wide nut, etc., is going to be a chore to work up speed on. Then, again, it's going to be a chore to play bebop on a Martin D-28 set up with a good, medium action with medium gauge strings for bluegrass, too. Yet, a guy like Tony Rice can _burn_ with an action like that. Scott Fore can play a danged flattop with medium action so fast--fingerstyle or flatpick--that it is downright scary.

It never impeded Laurindo Almeida to play jazz on a traditional instrument; Charlie Byrd either. Jerry Reed had a crazy right hand technique, due to his inability to bring his index finger into play, yet he tore up a classical guitar on jazz.

I actually prefer a traditional classical guitar to one that is made for country/jazz (i.e., one with a narrow neck and shorter scale). And, the sound of bebop on the classical guitar is actually very close to that of an acoustic archtop guitar--when comparing single-string lines. Chord melodies sound a little different, typically.

I find jazz on the classical guitar quite appealing--just not LOUD. How you deal with the volume issue is a separate issue. Most pickups make the instrument sound--to a lesser or greater extent--somewhat like an Ovation guitar. You may like this, but I do not. I much prefer employing a condenser mic to retain something of the instrument's tone. Still, any amplification seems to me to alter the tone...same thing with the flattop and archtop guitar. Just sayin'.

[Encinitastubes]

I've been playing a traditional-sized classical and I'm committed to making it work. What I've found is that it is much more important that my left hand is in shape than when playing electric. Like Greentone, though, I'm not a fan of amplified acoustics. Even sticking a 57 in front of it sounds better to me than a pickup. The sound of the full scale and high action is incredibly satisfying.

[I_88]

Hey Greentone and Encinitastubes! Thanks for posting, I really like that you prefer playing a traditional-sized classical. I do too!

May I ask you, how do you actually play the thing, with a pick or fingers? for playing lines and for chord-melody..

Just curious and thanks again!

[Cunamara]

Well, one can certainly blow on a nylon string guitar:

And our own KIRKP on his Rick Turner Renaissance:

[Encinitastubes]

Hey Greentone and Encinitastubes! Thanks for posting, I really like that you prefer playing a traditional-sized classical. I do too!

May I ask you, how do you actually play the thing, with a pick or fingers? for playing lines and for chord-melody..

Just curious and thanks again!

I don't know if it is the slight purist in me, but I never touch my pick when I play a nylon string. I play mostly I-M for scales and for arpeggios I play like I am holding a pick, just without the pick. Thumb on the downstroke and index on the up. Lute players used to play that way. It's hard to get as full of a sound as with a traditional rest stroke, but it's all I can do. I find it a challenge to make one note on a classical sound excellent.

[Greentone]

I play with a traditional right hand, having studied classical guitar. Bucky Pizzarelli, though, plays excellent classical/jazz on a traditional instrument using a pick. Check out the album Portrait.

[I_88]

Thanks guys! And Greentone, I'm definitely checking out that album, being a pick player.

Having watched that video of John Mclaughlin and KIRKP's playing too, gotta say I'm quite inspired already!

Btw, Encinitastubes, I know what you were taking about there about finding it hard to make a nice sounding note on a classical. Same here! It's probably the hardest guitar to sound good on, yet I love it so much.. it has a unique tone.
I know I'd sound a lot better on a classical if my RH had some classical training.. but I'm using my pick for now I guess!

[skykomishone]

x2 on the Paul Meyers. There are plenty of guys out there playing nylon stringed guitars doing all sorts of jazz.
What does Maria Muldaur say in that tune - "It Ain't the Meat, It's the Motion."

[Robertkoa]

I understand Vintagelove's sentiment. If you play on, say, a Paul Reed Smith with low action, a classical guitar with 26" scale, 2" wide nut, etc., is going to be a chore to work up speed on. Then, again, it's going to be a chore to play bebop on a Martin D-28 set up with a good, medium action with medium gauge strings for bluegrass, too. Yet, a guy like Tony Rice can _burn_ with an action like that. Scott Fore can play a danged flattop with medium action so fast--fingerstyle or flatpick--that it is downright scary.

It never impeded Laurindo Almeida to play jazz on a traditional instrument; Charlie Byrd either. Jerry Reed had a crazy right hand technique, due to his inability to bring his index finger into play, yet he tore up a classical guitar on jazz.

I actually prefer a traditional classical guitar to one that is made for country/jazz (i.e., one with a narrow neck and shorter scale). And, the sound of bebop on the classical guitar is actually very close to that of an acoustic archtop guitar--when comparing single-string lines. Chord melodies sound a little different, typically.

I find jazz on the classical guitar quite appealing--just not LOUD. How you deal with the volume issue is a separate issue. Most pickups make the instrument sound--to a lesser or greater extent--somewhat like an Ovation guitar. You may like this, but I do not. I much prefer employing a condenser mic to retain something of the instrument's tone. Still, any amplification seems to me to alter the tone...same thing with the flattop and archtop guitar. Just sayin'.

I just heard a guy playing a Nylon Cutaway
at a Guitar Center - the Brand was Cordoba-
and Amplified through a Bose System it was on the " lesser" side of your Ovation comparison- but your point is well taken.
The Cordoba sounded a cut above Ovations- had a Gypsy Kings sound but very good- I imagine it could be EQ'd deeper I was not playing it but was impressed by the Tone.



I wonder why there are never fret markers on Nylon Strings ?

John Mclaughlin prefers Nylon for his acoustic stuff ( mostly with pick)- I remember in Interviews he said Nylon has a very wide dynamic range.

There was a Player in Miami years ago named Simon Salz who
played all types of Joe Pass stuff on a Classical....and he did some cool Modern Composition as well - he was very fluid
Harmonically...and it sounded great.

[mr quick]

Hello all,

I've been on a huge Latin kick lately, really enjoying old Jobim records and the likes, as well as these wonderful clips from Nelson Faria:

I'm staying at my parents' place in Western Norway (I live in Oslo) and this gave me a chance to bust out my old guitar, a 70s-80s Ibanez classical guitar ironically designated the "335"..!
It's a nice, Japanese-made guitar, but has lived a very very hard life (mostly with improper/negligent storage), with some of the back having separated from the rim after an impact, various dents, some bellying by the bridge, and the neck seems to have slightly pushed the top down under it over time, causing the string height to be very hard to play as you get above the 5th fret.
Even with its playability issues, it's been a blast playing it these last few days. Ever since my friend Afonso (also a member here) showed me some Ralph Towner bootlegs, I've been wanting to play a non-electric.

This is scratching the itch, but since it's so hard to play, I was wondering if you guys have any good recommendations for inexpensive guitars to look out for?
The "perfect" guitar is Furch's nylon string guitar, which has non-traditional features that make it just a blast to play for the untrained guitarist. I don't need a classical guitar, just a nylon-string one!

I'm also looking at the A&R Roadhouse Nylon, which ain't too bad either.

Here's some points about what I might be interested in:

• Inexpensive (maybe around 500 €?) - I want the Furch, but my budget won't allow it. I'm selling a sax and an SG which might fund this :-)
• Laminate top? - I don't know that my student flat can accomodate a climate stable enough for a solid-top guitar :-)
• On-board preamp? - Not a necessity, but good to have!
• "modern" construction? - I'm not a classical player, so I wouldn't mind a slim neck, strap buttons, or a cutaway!

Any thoughts on this?

[lammie200]

Martin 000C12-16E Nylon Classical Guitar | 16 Series | C.F. Martin

I don't know if you can find one these on the used market. I paid a bit under $1000 USD for mine with the case about 5-6 years back. Great guitar.

[lukmanohnz]

The Taylor nylon strung guitars are great for the nylon vibe without the classical feel. There are a variety of price points (the Academy is the low end):

Academy 12e-N | Taylor Guitars
714ce-N | Taylor Guitars