-
I am pretty familiar with typical values for the action at the 12th fret (unfretted) of a classical guitar - usually stated on the 1st and 6th strings. And there is certainly a range of what is normal. For a CG less than 3.0/3.5 mm (1st and 6th strings) is where things are kind of low (but hardly unusual). Around 3.5/4.0 mm is where things start to get 'kind of high'.
What is the equivalent for an archtop steel string? Thanks.
dave
-
08-18-2021 09:03 PM
-
It’s me again, the guy who asks, acoustic or electric?
-
I just lower the action until it starts buzzing, then raise it a bit.
In other words, as low as it can go!
-
5/64 bass 4/64, treble. Some variation of this. I like that action and just a hair under that not measurable as such.
-
If it matters (and I can see that it might-or might not) then both. dave
Originally Posted by ThatRhythmMan
-
Thanks, Mark. For completeness that is about 2.0mm on the bass and 1.6mm on the treble side. dave Originally Posted by deacon Mark
-
Acoustic, I like about 3mm on the bass side, bit less on treble. I'd go higher if playing only rhythm.
On electric, im just about 2mm on bass, little less treble.
Yes, it very, very much matters.
-
This! Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
-
Good, and 4 and 3 if one can manage it. Originally Posted by deacon Mark
That’s a flat fretboard though, like a Benedetto.
-
LAPWOB (Low as possible without buzzing) works for me regardless of acoustic or electric. I can play old school rhythm guitar with a low action just fine. It takes a light touch and a steady, powerful right hand to pull it off.
-
4/64 for me on my archtops, solidbodies, flattop. I have a pretty light touch and almost never go chunka-chunka-chunka.
-
2" low E, 1 3/4" high E
love, Freddie Greene
-
...so you reached the lowest not buzzing position. Then raise it more, and you will be surprised how the sound of the guitar starts to live, and improves. Originally Posted by Gilpy
-
When I got to meet Howard Paul, he let me play his Benedetto. It was one that was gifted to him from Jimmy Bruno. I never played a guitar with such a low action! Neck was dead straight with no relief and not a dead spot to be found anywhere. I almost needed a defibrillator it played so nice.
Sound? It was superb! I have come close to achieving that kind of action with my cheap Ibanez AF155. I don't believe you have to have a higher action for a great sound. Let the pickups and the amp do the work!
-
On my gigging guitars I usually jack up the action to the point where it‘s just beginning to get uncomfortable - I pick hard, hate a buzzing string and just got used to fighting a little bit, regardless of string gauge or guitar. That’s a very personal thing IMHO. I once played Bill Frisell‘s Klein guitar and it’s action was so low that I had to be really careful with my picking, otherwise I would have choked every note I played…..
-
I like it as low as it will go without buzzing if it's an acoustic, and as low as it will go without buzzing through the amp if it is electric. I also like flatwound 10's
I am not looking for a fight with the strings or the guitar, I just want to get the notes out clearly and go on to the next few
-
I still use US SAE measurements for guitars although not a problem to convert. For me it just seems easier. That said, I repair bicycles and all of that is metric I have to have it all cover for tools.
One point worth a thought is that generally if you raise the action on a good acoustic archtop you will certainly get better sound and more of it. In fact try this little experiment. Set you action at 5/64 bass e and 4/64 high e. This certainly within any manufactures specs. In fact Gibson says that 6/64 is specs for acoustics.
Play the guitar and really get a sense of the response all over. Then raise the action to 6/64 and 5/64. This action is higher but certainly not way up in the stratosphere either. In a well make responsive archtop you should hear quite big difference and to further check ask someone to stand in front of you about 6-12 feet.
-
My guitar tech, who is very skilled, always returns my guitars to me with the string height set to the “standard”, which is too high for me. I think they do this so that people who don’t know how to adjust the neck on their guitar won’t come back and complain.
“High action = better tone” only goes so far. It just has to be high enough to get a clear tone that you like. I want to play the guitar, not fight it.
Of course, any discussion of where to set string height should start with the assumption that the guitar is in good shape with level frets and a straight neck.
-
I do have my ‘69 Super 400CES set to about 1.5 mm on the bass side and slightly lower on the high e side, and it works well for that guitar amd they way I use it. On the other hand, I would never set an acoustic archtop so low. You might be able to get it to ring clearly if the neck and angle are all nearly perfect, but you will definitely lose volume/headroom with action that is too low.
-
The whole "low as possible without buzzing" thing doesn't really answer the original question about a "standard" that you can quantify. The value of a quantifiable standard is that it gives you a place to start. On an archtop at least, you can measure the action height to the standard and then move the saddle up and down, seasoning to taste.
Deacon Mark's advice above of 4/64 treble side and 5/64 bass side is good for just about any steel string guitar, archtop or flattop.
Luthier Otto D'Ambrosio, in a video on setting up archtop guitars, sets an Eastman guitar up with a "shy" 2/32 (4/64) on the treble side and "proud" 2/32 on the bass side.
I think Gibson's spec is 3/64 treble and 5/64 bass.
-
Thumbwheels allow easy adjustment, because on an acoustic gig, how much I need to be hitting the strings may vary according to instrumentation and acoustic. I’m constantly moving those around.
The more the strings wiggle around, the higher an action you need to eliminate buzz.
-
That flexibility to vary the action is one of the great things about archtops. I'm constantly moving mine around, just based on how I feel on a particular day. I don't believe guitar setups are immutable, written in stone, once done. It is nice to have a place to call "home" though.
-
Yes for sure and in addition to many other things that is why I do not like flattop guitars. I don't own one and unless someone gives me one I am not going out to buy any. The archtop is the king for versatility it can be changed on the fly playing for action. The necks rarely ever need to be reset compared to Martin's where after a number of years it is simply common practice. You can change the tailpiece, bridge, saddle, and action with ease. Flattops work certainly for some things well but I am firm believe that a good archtop acoustic has a great place for many of the places and situations that I see a flattop used. I don;t like the dreadnaught design sound is not to my ears. Give a choice a nice om42 but otherwise no flattops for me. Originally Posted by Chazmo
-
I think unless you add fallaway to the upper frets (let's say beyond 13th) you will get a cheap sounding buzz if you set your action low. Through an amp it usually becomes inaudible.
I suppose it became the norm for acoustic jazz to have that rattly sound. Probably unavoidable because they had to play hard. Tin hat on - I never enjoyed it.
I set my guitars to where bends don't choke out, then raise it a tad more. If anything it makes bends easier because your fingers don't foul the adjacent string. Unamped, the notes ring out.
The height will be dictated by the quality of the fretwork, your playing style and the setup. I don't put a number on it.
-
My electrics including archtops are set to a nearly flat neck and 3/64" on both treble and bass side. I play .11 flats fingerstyle with a light touch. I don't bend and I do my own finish fretwork. The only downside in my case to low action on MY electrics are when it comes to artificial harmonics. Its a bit easier with higher action.
Reply With Quote
Why do songbook melodies from the 40s sound so...
Today, 02:28 AM in The Songs