Heritage Eagle Custom - Crack a deal breaker?

[littleknicky]

Hello all!

I've always wanted to get into more straight-ahead jazz and chord melody stuff. Coming from gypsy jazz, it's never sounded quite right with an acoustic guitar. Low and behold, a Heritage Eagle Custom from 1987 has popped up locally and I'm considering checking it out, the only issue I see is that it has a crack in the headstock. Apparently, it was fixed once and has reopened. My question is twofold - would this make a good player guitar? (I am a little clueless when it come to pickups/etc - I play through an AER alpha and have never had an electric guitar); and if I shouldn't run away right now, care to give a fair price range that would account for making the repair and owning a fallen angel?

Buying an instrument with a crack screams "NO", yet my limited research says this type of crack may not be the end all of end alls. Thoughts?

Many thanks for any advice !

[Marty Grass]

That looks like it's a Heritage Eagle with some custom features. It is the base guitar in the Eagle series. The top looks like it's mahogany, which generally means the back is as well. The neck is mahogany. It has some nice MOP inlays, which is a custom feature.

These are great values and are fully carved instruments.

The headstock is a concern for two reasons. The first is the stability. The second is the resale value.

You would want to have a good luthier open up the crack and glue it solidly. Once that's complete, I'd have a stinger put on the guitar to cover the crack, which should not cost much at all. It would look better.

If you can do that and everything else is good with it, you've got a real keeper.

[Fear the Reaper]

Great guitar. My only concern is resale value in the event you dont bond with it. Considering you are transitioning to Jazz, that could happen. Even at a bargin price, and repair by a qualified luthier, no guarantee you will get your money back. All things considered, I would move on.
BTW 1987 the early years for The Heritage.

[citizenk74]

Hello all!

I've always wanted to get into more straight-ahead jazz and chord melody stuff. Coming from gypsy jazz, it's never sounded quite right with an acoustic guitar. Low and behold, a Heritage Eagle Custom from 1987 has popped up locally and I'm considering checking it out, the only issue I see is that it has a crack in the headstock. Apparently, it was fixed once and has reopened. My question is twofold - would this make a good player guitar? (I am a little clueless when it come to pickups/etc - I play through an AER alpha and have never had an electric guitar); and if I shouldn't run away right now, care to give a fair price range that would account for making the repair and owning a fallen angel?

Buying an instrument with a crack screams "NO", yet my limited research says this type of crack may not be the end all of end alls. Thoughts?

Many thanks for any advice !

Nope nope nope! That fine instrument deserves a proper repair - splines, re-carve, refinish. Gonna cost ya. It can be re-glued, and may hold for awhile, but sooner or later, that whole headstock is going to give way, and that will cost you a lot more to remedy. Bite the bullet and have it done now, or pass on the guitar. I've been down this road a couple of times. Good luck with your decision.

[Gilpy]

Sorry, but I must disagree with the previous post.
That is a very common and easily repairable type of crack and a simple glue repair, if well done, should last forever.
If the purchase price is lowered because of the crack, then resale value probably won’t be affected. However, finding a buyer may be more difficult.
In terms of pure functionality, a simple headstock crack that has been skillfully repaired will have zero impact.

[John A.]

I agree with the above posts saying in general headstock cracks are fairly common and are a relatively simple repair (just gluing and clamping, with no major surgery if you don't mind the repair being visisble). My concern is that there's a guy selling a guitar with a crack in it that would cost, what?, $100 to glue (more if you go with Marty's idea), and he hasn't bothered to do that? That doesn't speak well for the overall condition of the guitar. The fact that it has reopened also might mean that it's not as simple as we think. I'd likely pass, unless I had my heart set specifically on this model and couldn't find another. Otherwise, there are lot of non-broken archtop guitars out there.

[deacon Mark]

I would agree it simply can be re-glued. I would want to know the kind of glued used to fix it. Sometimes in clamping you can actually squeeze out too much glue like titebond.

Properly done glue is stronger than the wood. Doing the stinger would get costly for sure. I have never directly repaired a cracked headstock and then put a stinger on. Then it needs finish. To me that is getting into serious cost. Off hand at least $250-300.

If you just want a great guitar not worried about resale for the right price it is fine. I think if I were repairing this I might want to use hide glue instead of titebond just so it grabs fast.

[littleknicky]

Thanks so much for the replies! You've given me some good points to think about. I've heard the "glue is stronger than wood" phrase before which makes me wonder why this crack came back...

I suppose the big factor here is then: what would an ole Heritage Eagle with a fixed crack sell for?

I do understand that worth is essentially what someone would actually pay for something. The tricky part is that I am fairly clueless about the market for these guitars and wouldn't know what a good deal on a non-damaged one would look like! From reverb/ebay, it looks like used Eagles (mostly classics) are going for about 2-4k (USD). Those are asking prices though, I'd guess perhaps they are going for cheaper. I don't want to be the internet guy asking for someone to make a decision for me, but perhaps a request for a range where you might consider this to be a lucrative deal? $500-1000? $1000-1500?

[deacon Mark]

Thanks so much for the replies! You've given me some good points to think about. I've heard the "glue is stronger than wood" phrase before which makes me wonder why this crack came back...

I suppose the big factor here is then: what would an ole Heritage Eagle with a fixed crack sell for?

I do understand that worth is essentially what someone would actually pay for something. The tricky part is that I am fairly clueless about the market for these guitars and wouldn't know what a good deal on a non-damaged one would look like! From reverb/ebay, it looks like used Eagles (mostly classics) are going for about 2-4k (USD). Those are asking prices though, I'd guess perhaps they are going for cheaper. I don't want to be the internet guy asking for someone to make a decision for me, but perhaps a request for a range where you might consider this to be a lucrative deal? $500-1000? $1000-1500?

Guitars all have cracks in them even brand new......they are planned. The two piece top and back are glued together down the centerline. You see guitars getting top and back cracks all the time and the center seems glued holds fine. Necks are simply a 2-5 pieces of wood all glued together..........planned cracks. That said when you do the repair and re-glue it has to be that glue gets in all the places that will be pressed against. The joint needs to be clean as possible no other old glue or crude in the way. Then enough clamping pressure to hold the joint while it dries and is back to the original shape.

One time on a nasty headstock break splintering all over ( is was cheap guitar), the owner just wanted it back playable nothing fancy. The guitar was worth less than a real repair fix really. I glued it all up with titebond and then proceeded to clamp it. I had a lot of glue and squeeze out and it just keep coming as I applied pressure. Well sure enough I manage to simple squeeze all the glue pretty much out. When done and complete I wonder about the repair since it was so wild. I then took the guitar and dropped in back on the headstock as if it was falling backwards. Sure enough the crack opened and it was way past glue dry time. Well I heated it back up and clean all the glue out and started over. This time when I got the point that the headstock was squared up, I cleaned the squeeze out up ( much less) and let it dry. Did the same thing dropped headstock back like falling........bounce back up.

Strung the guitar up the next day and as far as I know the guy is still playing the guitar.

[2bornot2bop]

Thanks so much for the replies! You've given me some good points to think about. I've heard the "glue is stronger than wood" phrase before which makes me wonder why this crack came back...

I suppose the big factor here is then: what would an ole Heritage Eagle with a fixed crack sell for?

I do understand that worth is essentially what someone would actually pay for something. The tricky part is that I am fairly clueless about the market for these guitars and wouldn't know what a good deal on a non-damaged one would look like! From reverb/ebay, it looks like used Eagles (mostly classics) are going for about 2-4k (USD). Those are asking prices though, I'd guess perhaps they are going for cheaper. I don't want to be the internet guy asking for someone to make a decision for me, but perhaps a request for a range where you might consider this to be a lucrative deal? $500-1000? $1000-1500?

That Eagle in today’s market would sell for $2800 to $3200. A repair would be $500 tops. A recent headstock repair on a Tal Farlow sold here for $2300. But I feel that was on the low side for a TF. A repaired Heritage mahogany would be worth $1700 tops in my estimation. If you bought it for less than that you did good. I’d stay away for at the end of the day it’s a heritage mahogany. These guitars sold for $1200 not long ago. They’re heritage’s least attractive guitar, imo.

[littleknicky]

Thanks so much! I'll make sure to post back and update if the stars align. Again, thank you all for the information and advice!

[frankhond]

That guitar has been broken twice. Was the first repair done professionally?

Also I think the body is 18” on that one, an Eagle is 17”.

The pickup holders are white which looks a bit weird… are they really original? An Eagle is usually acoustic with a floater. Were the pickups installed at the factory as a custom option, or did someone do an aftermarket job? If the latter, is the bracing unharmed?

An Eagle in EU is about or just under 3000 euros today… and the current price on Blocket is *very* low.

If you can get satisfactory answers and the 18” body feels right, and you don’t care about resale, then it could be a good option. Otherwise I would pass and look for something else.

While I agree with @2bornot2bop from a resale/collector perspective the all mahogany Eagle until recently was comparably cheap, there aren’t many of these for sale, and “recently” was a long time ago. Also keep in mind prices in the US are very different from EU. No way you can get a hand carved 17” archtop under 2500 Euros over here unless it has issues, or it’s Chinese.

[littleknicky]

Thanks so much for the advice!

The seller ended up selling the guitar before I could look at it so I suppose it ended up being a lot of fuss about nothing. I very much appreciate all the replies, thanks again all. I hope to find something soon, but yes, archtops seem few and far between over here.

Guess I'll have to have a little patience, untill then, back to scourging Blocket and Facebook Marketplace!

All the best

[2bornot2bop]

Definitely a 17” body. The beige pickup frames were fairly common on these budget minded mahogany Eagles. Observe how the pickup frame matches the beige binding on the guitars edge. More expensive model Eagles all had white binding. But what do I know, I’m just a piano player.

[frankhond]

Definitely a 17” body.

Who knows. The owner of this guitar wrote, in a different forum, “18" at the lower bout”.

[339 in june]

Never heard of a 18" mahogany body Eagle, but I may be wrong

[frankhond]

Never seen one with pickups cut into the top either but that doesn’t mean they don’t exist of course.

[frankhond]

@littleknicky sent you a pm.

[Fear the Reaper]

All is not lost. The knowledge gained will serve you well.

Thanks so much for the advice!

The seller ended up selling the guitar before I could look at it so I suppose it ended up being a lot of fuss about nothing. I very much appreciate all the replies, thanks again all. I hope to find something soon, but yes, archtops seem few and far between over here.

Guess I'll have to have a little patience, untill then, back to scourging Blocket and Facebook Marketplace!

All the best

[2bornot2bop]

Who knows. The owner of this guitar wrote, in a different forum, “18" at the lower bout”.

it’s easy to tell by looking at the body. I’ve owned 6 super Eagles, so I know what an 18” body looks like. It’s bigger.

[frankhond]

it’s easy to tell by looking at the body. I’ve owned 6 super Eagles, so I know what an 18” body looks like. It’s bigger.

It's possible that it's a 17" and the owner is wrong. It's also possible that lens distortion / photo angle is misleading, wouldn't be the first time a guitar had misrepresenting proportions in a photo.

[2bornot2bop]

It's possible that it's a 17" and the owner is wrong. It's also possible that lens distortion / photo angle is misleading, wouldn't be the first time a guitar had misrepresenting proportions in a photo.

It’s not a big bottomed guitar. As MG already suggested in the thread that guitar is a base model Eagle with a ‘hog top. Heritage didn’t build a Mahogany base model Eagle in a big bottom. When you see a big bottom guitar you know it because the bottom is WIDE. That guitar simply doesn’t have a wide bottom. It’s not a photo illusion. Having photographed and owned some 95 18” and 17” guitars I know the difference.