New to setting intonation on Archtops and action

[richay]

So i get the basic jist of it from reading, but I hear everywhere the best way to try an intonate one of those wood saddle: only tighten the 6 and 1 string and intonate those first which sounds all dandy, but once i tighten all the strings, its going to put tension on the neck - which would change intonation anyway or no? And also when i change intonation.. string height is bound to change right?
Also I have been setting my guitar for 6 - 4/32 and 1- 3/32, but ive been reading around here and see people are setting it too all equal size?
Also is their a pin bridge height to string height at 12 fret ratio or equation?
I know part of learning is te experiment but I don't want to go through a few pack of strings trying to find my happy spot. Thank you in advance.
- Raquel

PS I got painters tape and will be switching to 50-11 chromes

[Cunamara]

If you've got a wooden bridge top, intonation is limited. Set the action and scootch the bridge until the high and low Es are intonated. The strings in the middle take their chances.

If you've got a Tune-O-Matic type bridge top, then there's a little bit of an iterative process to get all the strings intonated, but usually you can get it spot-on. This one's maybe a little complicated.

Setting neck relief is also part of setup which affects feel quite a bit.

[citizenk74]

So i get the basic jist of it from reading, but I hear everywhere the best way to try an intonate one of those wood saddle: only tighten the 6 and 1 string and intonate those first which sounds all dandy, but once i tighten all the strings, its going to put tension on the neck - which would change intonation anyway or no? And also when i change intonation.. string height is bound to change right?
Also I have been setting my guitar for 6 - 4/32 and 1- 3/32, but ive been reading around here and see people are setting it too all equal size?
Also is their a pin bridge height to string height at 12 fret ratio or equation?
I know part of learning is te experiment but I don't want to go through a few pack of strings trying to find my happy spot. Thank you in advance.
- Raquel

PS I got painters tape and will be switching to 50-11 chromes

[Donplaysguitar]

Wood bridges are about tone. Their intonation sucks. Gotta tell the truth.

[John A.]

So i get the basic jist of it from reading, but I hear everywhere the best way to try an intonate one of those wood saddle: only tighten the 6 and 1 string and intonate those first which sounds all dandy, but once i tighten all the strings, its going to put tension on the neck - which would change intonation anyway or no?

If the difference in tension produces a huge amount of neck relief and you don't compensate for it with the truss rod, maybe, but I don't think I've experienced that. If it did, it might take some trial and error to get the bridge in exactly the right spot, but you'd still start by spotting it via the 2-string method.

And also when i change intonation.. string height is bound to change right?

I don't see why string height would be affected by very small changes in bridge saddle position.

I have been setting my guitar for 6 - 4/32 and 1- 3/32, but ive been reading around here and see people are setting it too all equal size?

Whatever is comfortable and in tune for you is OK. There are no hard and fast rules for action height.

is their a pin bridge height to string height at 12 fret ratio or equation?

If I understand correctly what you're asking, to raise/lower action at the 12th fret by N, you need to raise/lower the bridge saddle by 2N. Think of the string as the hypotenuse of a right triangle. The 12th fret is 1/2 the distance to the bridge. Therefore the height there is 1/2 the height at the bridge.

I know part of learning is te experiment but I don't want to go through a few pack of strings trying to find my happy spot. Thank you in advance.
- Raquel

PS I got painters tape and will be switching to 50-11 chromes

Trial and error is pretty much the only way to figure what set-up works for you.

John

[deacon Mark]

Wood bridges are about tone. Their intonation sucks. Gotta tell the truth.

Have to disagree with this they are if done correct almost as good as a tunomatic. I have a 2005 Super 400 that had tunomatic and I made my typical slight compensation ebony bridge. This has a slight gradual compensation from high E to the low E. The guitar basically intonates almost exactly the same but I like the sound of the ebony wood bridge much better. If you happen to have a guitar that is being fussy you can take the ebony bridge and make individual compensations for each string. It takes more work but can be done. I have found that on guitars with 25 inch or longer scale lengths this is really overkill and the guitar will intonate fine without the extra attention.

[Donplaysguitar]

You've worked with more guitars than I, but that is not my experience. Current experience included.

I like the custom wood bridge idea, but as you say, it's a hassle. I like the idea of a compensated nut too, but again...


As a player, once you are aware of the intonation issue, it drives you to distraction. Guitar meet case.

[fep]

I like to go in this order: TRAIN

Tune.
Truss Rod Adjustment.
Adjust Action.
Intonate.
Noodle.

[deacon Mark]

You've worked with more guitars than I, but that is not my experience. Current experience included.

I like the custom wood bridge idea, but as you say, it's a hassle. I like the idea of a compensated nut too, but again...


As a player, once you are aware of the intonation issue, it drives you to distraction. Guitar meet case.

No compensated nut ever for me, that induces only more problems. Apparently some like it but but theory is one thing, in actual practice another.

[jazzkritter]

In this Internet forum/social media world it’s very easy to get caught up in “perfection” since many are sitting around doing nothing but finding things that are imperfect according to their network peers.
I dunno, but let’s remember a whole lot of jazz greats didn’t seem to mind the (weird, screwy, poor, good enough))) intonation of a wood bridge.
I follow Tal’s method, intonate for the 5 x 7th fret area, or where the majority of your playing is.
Also note there are no TOMs on classical guitars. Arguably a far more intonation sensitive world than jazz.
To sum up my feelings,
you get a certain sound out of wood that defines a period in jazz guitar,
It will never (ok Mark, rarely) intonate like a TOM,
intonate selectively based on your style
and stop looking at your belly buttons and just play.

[chasranney]

...intonate selectively based on your style
and stop looking at your belly buttons and just play.

I see lint!

[Midnight Blues]