George Van Eps Photo/Film With 7-String Epiphone?

[AdvenJack]

Have you all come across any such photos or film that show the guitar clearly?
Was it an Emperor that was renecked?
Thank you,
Jack

[wintermoon]

it's a Deluxe renecked at the factory

[AdvenJack]

Thanks very much. We get a good look at it in that photo. I think it's curious that GVE chose
to have the four tuners on the low side of the headstock. I think it's easier to use the tuners that
are on the high side of the headstock, so I'd expected to see four on the high side and three on
the low side.

[ronjazz]

It was a Deluxe.

[wintermoon]

Thanks very much. We get a good look at it in that photo. I think it's curious that GVE chose
to have the four tuners on the low side of the headstock. I think it's easier to use the tuners that
are on the high side of the headstock, so I'd expected to see four on the high side and three on
the low side.

I don't know if he specified which side got 4.

[Jim Soloway]

I don't know if he specified which side got 4.

I agree but none of them really had any experience on which to base that decsion.

He sounded very different on the Epiphone than the Gretsch. I don't know if it was the guitar or just evolving tonal objectives but his tone went from very bright with a lot of acoustic presence to much darker and electric.

[neatomic]

knowing what kind of mind for detail van ep's had, i'd bet the epi tuning peg layout was his decision!

van eps tuned his low string to an A rather than B...plus he tuned the whole guitar down a whole step...so his low string was actually G!...he did it to get "a softer feel under the fingers"



cheers

ps- rereading van eps 4 page! contribution to the great book-epiphone-the house of stathopoulo...he was indeed very much involved in the design of the guitar...even making templates of the exact neck he wanted...he felt that the heavier strings required more room to vibrate..hence the tuner spacing...

after epi built him the test 7 string ( a blonde-which he used about a year), he actually gave them his old 6 string sunburst deluxe to graft the neck to...and gave away the test model!!...and that's the burst you see him with

a great book highly recommended!

[Jim Soloway]

knowing what kind of mind for detail van ep's had, i'd bet the epi tuning peg layout was his decision!

van eps tuned his low string to an A rather than B...plus he tuned the whole guitar down a whole step...so his low string was actually G!...he did it to get "a softer feel under the fingers"



cheers

ps- rereading van eps 4 page! contribution to the great book-epiphone-the house of stathopoulo...he was indeed very much involved in the design of the guitar...even making templates of the exact neck he wanted...he felt that the heavier strings required more room to vibrate..hence the tuner spacing...

after epi built him the test 7 string ( a blonde-which he used about a year), he actually gave them his old 6 string sunburst deluxe to graft the neck to...and gave away the test model!!...and that's the burst you see him with

a great book highly recommended!

I could be wrong but I think the downtuning came later.

[wintermoon]

I agree but none of them really had any experience on which to base that decsion.

He sounded very different on the Epiphone than the Gretsch. I don't know if it was the guitar or just evolving tonal objectives but his tone went from very bright with a lot of acoustic presence to much darker and electric.

well, you're comparing an acoustic guitar to an electric w/many holes cut in the top.
very apples and oranges...

[Cunamara]

I like the re-necked Deluxe better than the Gretsch from the visual perspective. Something about a non-cutaway archtop.

Edit: looking around on the innerwebz I found this interview with Ron Eschete, who mentions that GVE was left handed... as was Joe Pass. Whaaat? How did I not know that?

[Cunamara]

Hey, there is a bunch of new George Van Eps video playing solo that I've never seen before, and appears to have been posted just today:

https://m.youtube.com/user/eds115853369/videos

[neatomic]

wow..great...thru a fender...looks like a jbl 15"...hoping the u-tube poster-erik- is a member here!

van eps first influence was eddie lang...then his dad took him to see segovia in 1928 at town hall nyc...he described as "i heard the great master play- boy, what an impact!.... the full orchestra on guitar"

cheers

[neatomic]

young van eps with art tatum and the dorseys

cheers

[Cunamara]

There is a biography of George Van Eps written by a Harrison Stephens, which I think I got from Amazon. It was written by interviewing George, a lot of it is quotes in the first person. He really had quite a fascinating life history. His recording career spanned 62 years, starting on banjo and being introduced to the guitar by Dick McDonough. In addition to being a supremely skilled jazz musician, he was also a machinist and worked with his father's company manufacturing and selling precision items for the World War II effort. His father, Fred, was also a professional banjoist. George and his wife also owned a hobby shop at one point. As some people here know, one of George's prides and joys in his life was hand-making- from scratch- a working scale railroad steam engine at a scale 1/10 of an inch to the foot. This included having to make the tools to assemble it. He did it because he heard someone say it couldn't be done.

Anyway, regarding the 7 string guitar. George wanted a guitar with a range closer to that of a piano. He worked out how to play it before he had one- stringing a guitar by moving all the strings over one so that he had a high B string and could tune the low string to A to work out the fingerings, drawing out engineering specifications, etc. He created sort of a playable mockup of the instrument and then took the specifications and his Epiphone Deluxe guitar to the Epiphone factory in 1938. The neck maker created the new neck, a luthier sawed the old neck off and the new neck was installed. George then made his own pickup for amplifying the instrument. At the time, of course, there were no low A guitar strings so Epiphone made them for him, a double wrapped string on an .022" core. His first several albums as a leader were recorded on that instrument, it seems. This was his main instrument until 1961 or 62 when Gretsch contacted him about making the Van Eps seven string model. They made 3400 of them over the years, selling for $1295 and George apparently got $150 for each one. So that worked out OK for him.

All of that seems like it would've been enough to secure him a place in Jazz guitar history at the top of the pantheon. But no, he had to also go write "Harmonic Mechanisms for the Guitar." I don't think very many people have gotten through every page of all three volumes.

[Litterick]

But no, he had to also go write "Harmonic Mechanisms for the Guitar." I don't think very many people have gotten through every page of all three volumes.

I have only a vague memory of trying to figure out what was going on.

[Gitterbug]

a great book highly recommended!

I think the book could have been more honest and detailed about the apparent infighting and mismanagement in Epiphone's final years. Coming from Gibson's historian, it's conceivable that corners were rounded for brand identity reasons. With Gibson retreated from archtops, Epi has a chance to show its claws and, while still sourcing from Far East, move to a higher price/quality level with their hollowbodies. The MIK Emperor Regents and Broadways, as well as later Elitist models, prove it's doable.

[AdvenJack]

Thanks for entering all the information thus far. I'm enjoying the learning!