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I'll throw in with the Taylor 12 fret Grand Concerts. Very balanced acoustic sound, both x-braced and newer v-braced models. I had to move on from 16" acoustic archtops due to shoulder and hand issues and have found the smaller body, Taylor neck profile, short scale and 12 fret design works great for me ergonomically. The bonus is they are not as boomy as a larger acoustic and have a very even string to string balance. I have both a 322 mahogany top that's very mellow and a 612 spruce top that's brighter, but not overly so. Add some Elixer strings to reduce the squeak and I'm very happy with how they sound.
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02-08-2021 12:20 PM
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Sure why not? Had a gypsy guitar for years too, but traded it for an archtop at some point.
These days I leave my 810 at dadgad tuning, but I play jazz quite a lot on the 512
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I have a Gibson J45 and an old Ovation from ~1971, and I sometimes drag them out and play them. I play the same music, pretty much, whatever the guitar. I used to have a DeArmond soundhole pickup in the Gibson, and a Pick Up The World piezo later. The flat-tops are just too uncomfortable for me to play much, too deep.
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I've been intrigued and thought about getting a Waterloo but eventually decided against it.
2 of my favorite examples:
Scofield playing My Ideal on a Martin (see on YT), great playing and tone, makes you wish he did an entire album on that Martin.
Marc Ribot playing an old Gibson live with Diana - fab sound.
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Yeah, a flattop's a different timbre from an archtop, just as is a classical or Sel-Mac. I think it maybe lends itself to thinking a little differently? Which might be part of why I'm enjoying it.
Thanks for the selections posted above!
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Any of you guys ever spin these albums? I had these a hundred years ago in college, and as a flat-top playing songwriter wannabee coming up, hearing them really opened my ears. I could relate because it was acoustic (albeit Ovation, and all that implies) but man oh man I thought the playing was spectacular. I tried to find a clip on youtube but no dice. I'm gonna go see what's still on my vinyl shelf...
Last edited by Flat; 02-09-2021 at 09:39 PM.
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Although it can sometimes be difficult to differentiate between the two!
Originally Posted by Stringswinger
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coryell was a big endorser/spokesman for a. loprinzi guitars...a strange nj luthier...i believe he was a barber..but made cool acoustics
cheers
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Stage volume must have been relatively low and he later switched to an Ovation. Originally Posted by Cunamara
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Ralph Towner has been playing his Guild 12-strings since the early 70's, Abercrombie used his Guild for the Duo sessions with Towner, Metheny even when he started out with Gary Burton did so ... long list. McLaughlin with SHAKTI comes to mind, Steve Khan on his wonderful "EVIDENCE" album ....
Jazz guitar does NOT end with an archtop and a pickup - it's the notes played and the feeling, the spirit, the freedom.
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In my youth l would sometimes put a set of flats on my plywood 00018 toredo. With my bill lawrence soundhole pickup i got some very mellow tones for my nacent jazz tunes. Definitely had a distinctive character, not at all unpleasant.
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Kenny Burrell occasionally played a flattop, even a classical at times. Since they are technically flat tops, there are a number of jazz players who prefer nylon strings, even Joe Pass recorded at least two LPs on one, he also did one on acoustic 12 string. Here's Burrell on acoustic, Pass on 12:
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I used to play exclusively with a flat top. I had a Manson Bluebird, by Andy Manson. It was the best guitar I ever owned. It was amplified with a Fishman Rare Earth and AER amp. I used Elixir strings. It was a winning combination. The guitar was designed for electric players so needed no setting up for jazz. The frets eventually wore down so I had it re-fretted, but it was a disaster.
Several years later I had a flat top made by luthier Martin Keith. It is an unusual guitar in that it has an adjustable bridge and the neck raises and lowers and actually detaches completely. It also retains the truss rod. This all allows for the tiniest adjustments to the action. It is fitted with a thin EMG pickup. The dimensions are based on my Peerless archtop, so I didn't need to adjust my playing (lazy and old). So it's a hybrid flat top/archtop. Nothing quite like it. Oh, did I mention it has luminous fret markers.
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Their shop was not far from me, though I didn't know about it before they folded up. I've come across a couple of them in local music stores, they're competitive with Martins. Originally Posted by neatomic
coryell was a big endorser/spokesman for a. loprinzi guitars...a strange nj luthier...i believe he was a barber..but made cool acoustics
cheers
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Just heard about Chick Corea's passing. Here I am reading his tune Windows on my Larrivée Om-03. I had not used this guitar in a long time, strings are at least a year and a half old...
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Another one... It wouldn't sound any better on an archtop to my mind.
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nice mellow tone, you did the old strings justice
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I think Waterloos are great guitars for acoustic jazz. Their quick decay and dry punchy sound reminds me of a gypsy or arch-top type guitar. I have one of the early ones a WL-14L. Which is a 00 size and has ladder bracing. It also has a T-bar instead of a truss rod. The neck hasn't moved in 5+ years. The intonation and play-ability is great. I string mine with Monels; the Laurence Juber set which is a hybrid medium. People who are used to big wet (meaning lots of overtones....rosewood) dreads hate it Originally Posted by m_d
. It is like the difference between studio monitors and tricked out home stereo speakers. Revealing. Waterloos are the "Tele of acoustic guitars".
There are clips of Frisell and Lage playing Waterloos. Here is Mark from Collings playing a 12 fret model:
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I am a home hobbyist player and play mostly solo arrangements of standards. I play steel string flat tops, archtops, gypsy and nylon strings. Flat tops offer greater bass response, more overtones and some can have longer decay (sustain) compared with archtop guitars. These attributes are fine for solo play (perhaps not so welcome for an ensemble context where cut and fitting within the mix are important).
What I look for in flat tops are typically strong trebles on the E, B and G strings to carry the melody, good balance across the strings for 3 and 4 string chords and maintaining a true timbre in the upper registers of the fretboard. 12 fret, 14 fret made from all sorts of materials are fine. It will really depend upon the player's preference. I also personally find a cutaway useful for the same reasons as I do with archtops. Yes, they are different than archtops, but they are very satisfying to play solo. Guitars are tools to enable music and honestly there is no reason not to play the music you love on many types of guitars (they all offer different benefits and constraints).
Here are a few of mine that I have been playing lately:
Luthier John Buscarino made this Indian RW/Carpathian Spruce guitar (his Rhapsody model) for me and it has a carved back like an archtop. It is a 16" guitar, but is shallow at about 4" deep for a flat top.
This is a 12 fret 000 sized (15") Myrtle/Adirondack Spruce guitar made for me by luthier Bruce Sexauer. It is simply wonderful for solo play. You can easily lose an hour of your life picking it up and playing it.
This is a smaller, 12 fret 00 sized (14-1/4") Koa/Swiss Spruce guitar made by luthier Michael Bashkin. Smaller guitars can feel more intimate and have a focus to their timbre that I find satisfying.
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It mostly depends on the player and their commitment to the instrument. This sounds fantastic because the commitment (along with the talent) is there. Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
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I love what Eric Skye does on a flat top as well.
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Did not think I’d ever see a capo used in this forum. I’ve a lot to learn. Originally Posted by Jim Soloway
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