Japanese MANN Howard Roberts guitar (Ibanez 2453 ?)

[va3ux]

I've been curious about the oval sound hole Howard Roberts guitar ever since I saw a picture of one back in the 70's. Curious, but not driven to own one, especially with the current asking prices for Epiphone models made in the '60's or the Gibson ones made in the 70's. The Japanese copies don't come up all that often around here. There's nothing quite like it; it's a cool guitar.

I recently came upon a Japanese copy for sale locally, apparently made during the so-called lawsuit era. This one is branded 'MANN', which was a brand owned by the Great West Import Co. in Canada back in the 70's and 80's. The MANN guitars of the 70's were apparently sourced from Fujigen Gakki who also made Ibanez branded guitars for Hoshino. The one I picked up appears to be absolutely identical to the Ibanez model 2453 offered in 1976 and 1977. There's no serial number or label on it. It's quite well made and plays well; electronics all good. It has the same Star Tuners found on Ibanez models from the same era, same headstock inlay and same hardware as the Ibanez models, etc. And the same headstock shape that was the subject of the Gibson/Hoshino lawsuit.

[archtopeddy]

Cool buy! 60's Japanese guitars are very cool indeed.

I always say, Ibanez, MANN, Greco, Firstman -- when only a Fujigen-Gakki will do!

Congrats...

[Gitterbug]

Congrats! Looks like a find.

Sorry to digress a bit, but the Epi headstock inlay has always intrigued me. It's quite complicated, yet very common even on later, inexpensive Korean and Chinese Epi archtops (Emperor Regent, Broadway) and thin bodies (Sheraton). Their fretboard inlays and multiple bindings are also much more elaborate than on Gibson ES-175s or 335s, for example. Today's CNC routing / laser engraving technologies no doubt enable such detail on mass-produced items, so the contrast makes me wonder how old technology is Gibson actually using in its U.S. works? In terms of automation, the newer factories in the Far East appear to be from another planet, an apparent paradox given the opposite difference in labor costs.

[Crm114]

Good buy, I had a Greco variant. Yours likely has a Maxon pickup.

Play it in good health

[TOMMO]

Very nice score - congrats!

[jazzkritter]

Va3ux de kc2xu... we have reversed end letters...cool! We’re moving soon so I’m all packed up and off the air. SSB voice. TS890s, TS440sat, TS830s, HQ180a(for heat)))

Best of fun with that Mann it looks great. Fugijen rules!

[va3ux]

Va3ux de kc2xu... we have reversed end letters...cool! We’re moving soon so I’m all packed up and off the air. SSB voice. TS890s, TS440sat, TS830s, HQ180a(for heat)))

Best of fun with that Mann it looks great. Fugijen rules!

KC2XU de VA3UX : good luck with the move JK. And get back on the air when time permits. I've been off the air during this solar minimum but looking to start-up again soon as our sun spots return (I hope). TS590G + TS-930S; no more amps; mostly CW.

[citizenk74]

Very cool guitar, indeed! Congratulations, and play it in good health!

Does the mid knob work? Is it cut or boost?

[va3ux]

Very cool guitar, indeed! Congratulations, and play it in good health!

Does the mid knob work? Is it cut or boost?

Yup, it works. To tell you the truth, I'm not sure what I'm hearing with that control. Perhaps mid range roll-off. It's quite a noticeable although not huge change. Between the 2 tone controls, there are some very pleasing tones coming out of this guitar. The stock pickup sounds great as-is and I see no reason to change it.

There should be an inductor on that middle pot. I'll eventually take this all apart and we'll see then if the inductor is still there or if it was replaced by a cap at some point in the past, which is apparently what people often did if the inductor went open.

It's a cool guitar. It's 'its own thing'.

[Aiq]

Hello, just reregistered.

I just got this model branded Speedfire. Bought from original owner. Has Ibanez serial number, June 76 build. Gold star tuners. Really well built.

Issue is the pickguard gassed, kept in case a long time, and damaged the metal parts. I have a new Lollar JS, an L type tailpiece, and new Klusons.

I came into the board seeking install info one the pickup since the Roberts has the odd three knob.

Assuming I take the lead to the volume pot with the regular G type scheme.

I have heard splicing the lead is not desirable.

Any advice welcome. Thanks.

[citizenk74]

Hello, just reregistered.

I just got this model branded Speedfire. Bought from original owner. Has Ibanez serial number, June 76 build. Gold star tuners. Really well built.

Issue is the pickguard gassed, kept in case a long time, and damaged the metal parts. I have a new Lollar JS, an L type tailpiece, and new Klusons.

I came into the board seeking install info one the pickup since the Roberts has the odd three knob.

Assuming I take the lead to the volume pot with the regular G type scheme.

I have heard splicing the lead is not desirable.

Any advice welcome. Thanks.

Nice guitar!

[2bornot2bop]

That’s a beautiful guitar for sure. I love bursts! Congratulations on your find!

[Greentone]

Always been a fan of the Ibanez-and-stablemates Howard Roberts models. Every one I've played has been great.

[mr. beaumont]

Very cool.

I've always wanted to stumble upon a Japanese made HR copy.

[neatomic]

welcome aboard...(i like your kalachakra mandala avatar!)

nice hr style guitar...

3 knobs are vol, tone and choke/inductor...for bass/low mids

here's a great tutorial about whats inside and gettin things in and out- note the unusual rca pickup connector!

Early 70's Howard Roberts :: one pickup, two tones — Chubbuck Guitars :: making & repairing Guitars in a old building just north of Boston, Mass.


cheers

[Aiq]

@va3ux

Sorry for jumping on here, I just got excited to see a related thread!

Thanks for the link @neatomic

[sgosnell]

Splicing the lead is no problem, although some collector sometime might offer less for the guitar just because they can. A properly made splice has no effect on tone or function. A poorly made one can be problematic, but no more than a poorly made solder joint without a splice. It's easier to get a good joint with just a two-wire splice.

[Aiq]

Finished the rehab, did end up splicing the lead but left enough length to go to the pot in future. Will be done as at some point I will replace the entire harness as there is some observable damage to the case of the pot from the gassing of the pickguard. Nothing like the damage to the PU just a bit rough to the touch.

@va3ux I wish mine had been in as good condition as yours. I found this looking for info on these.

”I have some info about Ibanezes related trademarks:
RELATED TRADEMARKS - IBANEZ (Hoshino Co.Japan)
Isonez, Kasuga, Luxor, Halifax, Cimar, Maya, Morris, Global, Sekova, Polaris for European Market

Antoria (CSI) England Distributor

Greco for Japanese Market
MANN for Canadian Market
Jason for the Australian Market
Penco, Elger*, Univox [Speedfire?] for the US Market

Aria and Electra are from Matsumoku, not affiliated with Hoshino...”

*Elger is who Gibson sued not any Japanese concern hence “lawsuit”. Sued over the headstock apparently and became moot as by the time the case was moving the manufacture of these instruments was winding down.

[va3ux]

@va3ux

Sorry for jumping on here, I just got excited to see a related thread!

Thanks for the link @neatomic

Heck, you're more than welcome to add to this thread. Its a great addition to see another one of these unique guitars. I'm glad you posted
here.

[va3ux]

@va3ux I wish mine had been in as good condition as yours. I found this looking for info on these.

I would say yours is looking pretty good Aiq. The new pickup and tail piece look great.

[shally]

Hi to all


Been interested in finding a Japanese copy of the How Robt guitar

the 60’ Epi versions were made out of mahogany with a spruce top. These are thru the roof in price

does anyone know if any of the Japanese copies from the 70’s are made out of mahogany? Or are the all maple laminate? Price for these including Ibanez/Epi/Greco/Aria is all over the place

any suggestions?

Thanks

shally

[va3ux]

I don't know for sure but I think its safe to assume that all the Japanese copies are laminate. The ES-175 is all laminate too so were in good company if you look at it that way. I'd love to have an original from Epiphone or a 70's Gibson but I'm not willing to spend that kind of money.

The prices for the Jap copies really are all over the place. Recent prices seem to range from $750 to $2K +. And I don't know if any one of them is any better than the other. It seems that all of them were made either at Matsumoku or FujiJen Gakki.

[brad4d8]

va3ux de nw1k
Here's mine, a '90s Samick made Epi branded model. FWIW, the color in the picture is redder than in person, much more burgundy. I like it a lot, and it compares well with my Artist Award, at least when played acoustically, better than a lot of F-hole laminated archtops
Does yours have a solid top or laminated? Mine is laminated.

Also FWIW, mostly inactive except occasional 2 meter repeater contacts.

[jazzkritter]

va3ux, nw1k, kc4xu here.
Mostly fooling with FT8, WSPR, till a better antenna magically appears.
DC/NoVa 2m is quite active, but with folks who do milcom, satellites and who knows what else. I just listen and admire)
73s

[Jabberwocky]

Ibanez Model 2453 Hollowbody Electric Guitar (c.1975-76)