Speaker recommendations (Blackface Twin)

[kawa]

The best 12" guitar speaker for jazz???

[Gitterbug]

I'm going to have to agree to disagree with glitterbug on the 15 inch speaker size angle. Having my twin with 2 12s then 1 15 I do get a fuller widely dispersed sound out of the 15. I've also noticed 15s or 10s are less feedback prone with hollow guitars, the 12s seem to resonate earlier.

That said I do like the Eminence Deltalite in the 15 inch version, the series is suggested as a stand alone monitor speaker for either closed or open back and has a flat response. I use a linear Twin so your results may differ. The best sounding 15 I have is a old JBL AS version of the D series but it weighs a ton and is hard to find and pricey.

I also have 15 inch versions of the Yamaha G100 and Randall RG120 that sound and project great as well.

You're right in that a 2x12" is even more directional. The larger the speaker's diameter, the lower the frequency from where it starts beaming the trebles, steeply reducing overall SPL off-axis. This accounts for the warmer "speaker in the room" sensation of a 15". A 2x12" with speakers side by side behaves like, say, a single 20". A 2x12" with speakers aligned vertically would be much less directional. Typical hifi speakers are 3-way, with the woofer, midrange and tweeter aligned vertically, addressing different frequency zones for a more uniform off-axis projection.

I'm not a physicist, just a reader of commonly available information. OTOH, guitar sound is an acquired taste - actually many sounds to many tastes - to which theories apply - in theory. So I'm not lecturing or trying to say you're wrong. My own TOOB cabs defy just about every conviction, iron law and calculation formula. Yet there's over 250 of them out there, with pro musicians accounting for a very large share.

[citizenk74]

You're right in that a 2x12" is even more directional. The larger the speaker's diameter, the lower the frequency from where it starts beaming the trebles, steeply reducing overall SPL off-axis. This accounts for the warmer "speaker in the room" sensation of a 15". A 2x12" with speakers side by side behaves like, say, a single 20". A 2x12" with speakers aligned vertically would be much less directional. Typical hifi speakers are 3-way, with the woofer, midrange and tweeter aligned vertically, addressing different frequency zones for a more uniform off-axis projection.

I'm not a physicist, just a reader of commonly available information. OTOH, guitar sound is an acquired taste - actually many sounds to many tastes - to which theories apply - in theory. So I'm not lecturing or trying to say you're wrong. My own TOOB cabs defy just about every conviction, iron rule and calculation formula. Yet there's over 250 of them out there, with pro musicians accounting for a very large share.

Anecdotal information: I had a Music Man 112 RD with a 12" JBL recone for which I built an extension cabinet loaded with a 15" JBL. It was magnificently room filling. The tone were clear and clean, and the reverb was the best spring unit I ever had (Hammond, IIRC). letting that rig go was probably the worst decision of my musical existence.

[neatomic]

and the reverb was the best spring unit I ever had (Hammond, IIRC). letting that rig go was probably the worst decision of my musical existence.

hammond spring reverb tanks were the best!..very musical natural sounding verb tanks...think early fenders...unfortunately they were taken over by accutronics, who never quite equaled the og hammonds...today even accutronics are in name only and made in asia

cheers

[Alder Statesman]

I’d like to second the Eminence GA SC64. For a Blackfaced- voiced amp, these speakers bring out a warm, vintage tone. This was the best upgrade I made to my SuperSonic 22. The vintage channel on this amp is a Blackfaced Deluxe with a solid state rectifier.

I can only image that a pair would sound just marvelous in ‘65 Twin.

[Madansi]

First of all, i want to thank everyone here that replied to this thread, thanks for all the informations.

I decided to go to 1*12 cab instead of 2*12, because i don't wanna too much bass response that could be a bad match with an archtop. If anyone have advices about 1*12 vs 2*12, feel free to talk about it !

About speaker choice, i wanted to stay in a Fender like speaker but without icepick... After few youtube comparisons videos ( not a great tool to compare but only one i have right now ) i decided to go to WGS, plus they aren't too expensive.

I'll order both G12C ( Jensen-like ) and G12C/S ( smooth cone, less high ) to try both of them and resell or send back to the shop the one i like the less. Will keep you updated about this

[wzpgsr]

First of all, i want to thank everyone here that replied to this thread, thanks for all the informations.

I decided to go to 1*12 cab instead of 2*12, because i don't wanna too much bass response that could be a bad match with an archtop. If anyone have advices about 1*12 vs 2*12, feel free to talk about it !

About speaker choice, i wanted to stay in a Fender like speaker but without icepick... After few youtube comparisons videos ( not a great tool to compare but only one i have right now ) i decided to go to WGS, plus they aren't too expensive.

I'll order both G12C ( Jensen-like ) and G12C/S ( smooth cone, less high ) to try both of them and resell or send back to the shop the one i like the less. Will keep you updated about this

I recently got a Gries 35, which is based on the blackface Vibrolux Reverb—6L6 powercab tubes, etc. in the ballpark of a Twin Reverb from the same era. It came with an Eminence Tonker installed, and I can’t complain—sounds very good to my ears.

[Cavalier]

To be honest I've never had a bass difference from running 2 12s or 1. I get the same tone.but more air moving. Same thing with a 4 12. Bass players will often run a 4 10 for less bass than 1 15 as a example.

This winter I have been trying out a vintage CTS full range 12 from a old Hammond Piper organ from 1970 in my Ampeg Gemini 1. It has a extended range both in bass and treble over a guitar 12 that I am having fun with, especially on acoustic;, so check out frequency curves as in the speaker itself the design can do more to change the sound than the size.

[PAG]

This year. I tried out a bunch of 12"s in a Headstrong Lil King (Basically a Blackface Fender Princeton). Some of these are too low wattage for you to consider anyway, but here are some of the ones I tried out. Look for some of them in the "For Sale" section soon.


Among the modern speakers, I would say the best was the Jupiter 12LA and then Celestion Gold 12. They sound very different but both are great. The Celestion Gold has pronounced lower mids and extended treble range, which can sound good or bad depending on the amp. The Celestion has a distinct character which is not really what one typically thinks of as Fender. The Jupiter 12LA is the best sounding modern American Alnico 12" I've played. If you want the Fender sound with an alnico character (richer harmonics, more speaker compression) then you probably won't find a better speaker.


If you want to maximize for authenticity, I'd say go for the Jupiter 12SC or LC. They will produce the sound you have in your head when you think of Blackface Fenders. I tend to like Alnico speakers more, and I got really lucky finding some good deals on those old Jensens.

Hi, I am now thinking of ordering a Jupiter 12 LA 50W speaker for my BF Princeton Amp. Unfortunately, the European distributors do not have it in stock, so I would have to order it from the USA, which is not cheap. That's why I'd like to be relatively certain... My question is, does this speaker breaks up in a Princeton-type amplifier? Many thanks in advance!

[omphalopsychos]

replied to your DM. Jupiter 12 LA (50w) will not add speaker distortion in a 12w amp.

[PAG]

Many thanks for the super quick reply! Actually it is 14W due to my technician and the JJ 6V6 power tubes, but I don't think it matters

[Billy Z]

The Warehouse speakers are surprisingly good sounding and the price is very right. One of the best upgrades you can make to a fender champ is the Warehouse G8C . I have used the G12C in Deluxe reverbs and they perfectly matched . I do like the Jensen jet tornados neo’s for fenders as well.

[Herbie]

The Warehouse speakers are surprisingly good sounding and the price is very right. One of the best upgrades you can make to a fender champ is the Warehouse G8C . I have used the G12C in Deluxe reverbs and they perfectly matched . I do like the Jensen jet tornados neo’s for fenders as well.

Thumbs up for WGS speakers. I had once a SF Princeton 1979 with a 12” baffle. I spent about six months searching for a nice speaker for it. Everyone was a bit too much this or that.

But when I got the WGS G12C/S and played the first chords I knew I had came to home. Great balance, firm low end and everything.

But it was a Princeton, not a Twin!

[PAG]

I like too WGS speakers (also the manufacturer of Jupiter). I now have an 8" Alnico in my SF Vibro Champ, and before that I had the G8C, which also sounded very good (in a different way, of course).


I also tried the WGS G12C/S speaker in my BF Princeton Amp (and in a Twin Reverb as well), and although it is rated 75W, it breaks up before the Princeton does. It's may be due to its smooth cone, I'm not sure. In contrast to the G12C remains completely clean but there was too much bass for me (even with the potentiometer completely turned down). I used and tried many different speakers (Chicago-made Jensen alnico, Jensen Blackbird, CTS, Oxford, Weber both ceramic and alnico, etc...) and so far my Jupiter 12 LC is the best for me. It has recognisable Blackface sound and outstanding quality. Still I wonder if the Alnico version (12 LA) would produce a different, perhaps rounder treble in the 2-3kHz range, because off the character of the amp.

[Herbie]

I like too WGS speakers (also the manufacturer of Jupiter). I now have an 8" Alnico in my SF Vibro Champ, and before that I had the G8C, which also sounded very good (in a different way, of course).


I also tried the WGS G12C/S speaker in my BF Princeton Amp (and in a Twin Reverb as well), and although it is rated 75W, it breaks up before the Princeton does. It's may be due to its smooth cone, I'm not sure. In contrast to the G12C remains completely clean but there was too much bass for me (even with the potentiometer completely turned down). I used and tried many different speakers (Chicago-made Jensen alnico, Jensen Blackbird, CTS, Oxford, Weber both ceramic and alnico, etc...) and so far my Jupiter 12 LC is the best. Still I would need a bit more softness at 2-3 kHz because of the caracter of the amp.

I have never tested the Jupiters but they get a lot of praise.

Interesting that Your experience about early break up of WGS G12C/S. I play always so silently that nothing breaks up!

(Except in my Neil Young & The Crazy Horse band, breaking ups are an essential part of that music.)

[orabbit1]

You can’t go wrong with Eminence Cannabis Rex.

[PAG]

I have never tested the Jupiters but they get a lot of praise.

Interesting that Your experience about early break up of WGS G12C/S. I play always so silently that nothing breaks up!

(Except in my Neil Young & The Crazy Horse band, breaking ups are an essential part of that music.)

A tube amp sounds completely different above volume of 6 or 7 (a non-master amp or with fully turned-up master pot) than it does at bedroom volume. This is precisely one of the biggest differences compared to solid state, transistor construction. On the top of that above a certain volume level, human hearing increasingly perceives the bass and treble frequencies more strongly, like a V-shaped EQ. It's funny, but on paper BF/SF Fender amps with "American voiced" speakers shouldn't sound good in an orchestra environment

[kawa]

You needs several units for until find out.

C12K | Jensen Loudspeakers

[Billy Z]

My 1966 Princeton reverb has the stock jensen c10 . Sounds glorious.
I have put 12’s in for some people and it does sound good. But a good ten inch is really perfect. I have used jensen jet tornadoes and warehouse 10” American style. I think the ten is punchier in the bass than a 12”. I tried some 10” celestions a long time ago , but did not like them as well.

[PAG]

This year. I tried out a bunch of 12"s in a Headstrong Lil King (Basically a Blackface Fender Princeton). Some of these are too low wattage for you to consider anyway, but here are some of the ones I tried out. Look for some of them in the "For Sale" section soon.

Eminence GA SC64
Celestion Gold
Weber 12a150a
Weber 12a125
Weber 12a125a
Eminence Cannabis Rex
Eminence Legend 1258
Jupiter 12LC
Jupiter 12LA
Jupiter 12SC
WGS 12C
Jensen P12Q 1959
Jensen P12R 1955

I wonder after trying so many speakers, what do you use in your Princeton Amp?

[kawa]

[kawa]

[PAG]

With 30 years of stage experience behind me, I don't really believe that there is a solution that is suitable for everyone. The quality of a product is primary. It is impossible for a speaker (or an amp) made in China or Mexico to perform as well as an American product that costs three times as much. Within this, however, taste and preferences will be decisive, which are naturally different. To mention just one example: do we want a vintage correct sound or does our music require something else?

[pdfiddler]

I have a 1995 '65 Twin Ri with the original Eminence Fender branded 12s in it and they sound great. I think they are Eminence copies of Jensens that Fender used in the 60s.

[PAG]

replied to your DM. Jupiter 12 LA (50w) will not add speaker distortion in a 12w amp.

Hello Juan,

American speakers are becoming less and less available in Europe, which is why Italian Jensens are becoming more interesting for me. You wrote that you like the 40W Blackbird. I tried the 100W version. How is the speaker distortion of the smaller version (if you have experience with it)? Is it more early or stays clean with volume? I'm looking for a 10 inches one, but the 12 is also a reference. Thank you in advance!