Gibson ES-165 Herb Ellis question

[floatingpickup]

Yeah, it seems to me a perfect gigging guitar. No frills, few knobs. I already have a 175 by the way. Does it sound the same like one?

DB

I played an ES-175D for about 40 years before I bought the 165. Then I played the 165 on hundreds of gigs for about 5 years. I felt that the 165 sounded very similar to my vintage 175’s. It is basically the same guitar, with one less pickup. A great gigging guitar.
Keith

[lawson-stone]

even the epi zephyr regent, which a few years ago was around the 500$ mark, is now being listed for around 1k$ and more!!



cheers

And that's a splendid guitar, way more than you pay for it. I put a Seymour Duncan Phat Cat in mine and wow, it's a favorite. Feels like the VOS ES175 as to weight (but the body is mahogany). It's a lot of guitar for the money.

[jads57]

There's one for sale at Larkstreetmusic.com

[Gitfiddler]

My very first 'real' archtop was a 90's, heritage cherry ES-165 Herb Ellis. It belonged to a good friend who sold it to me for about a grand, what I thought was a small fortune. That ES-165 could cop every jazz tone I ever had in my head up to that time, and plenty of that illusive 'thunk'.

The 165 is long gone, but I missed it. When a deal came along recently on an '89 ES-175 Mahogany back, I jumped at the chance to own another simple laminate jazz box. Tonally it sounds close to that old red 165, but better, more refined. Each guitar is different, even close cousins like these two. These are two fairly basic, laminate archtops that do what they are intended...sound great amplified with minimal frills. Perfect!

[PMB]

First lefty I've seen, had several 165s never even heard of a lefty. Cool.

I've only come across three and the other two had black finishes. I bought my 165 from fine Swedish jazz guitarist, Gustav Lundgren just over ten years ago. I spotted it on his website and secretly hoped that one day he'd sell the instrument. Incredibly, a few weeks later it came up for sale on another forum and I jumped in immediately! Even in this roughly recorded and unrehearsed live clip with my trio and a friend sitting in on vocals, you can hear how nice the guitar sounds:

[djg]

I've only come across three and the other two had black finishes. I bought my 165 from fine Swedish jazz guitarist, Gustav Lundgren just over ten years ago. I spotted it on his website and secretly hoped that one day he'd sell the instrument. Incredibly, a few weeks later it come up for sale on another forum and jumped in immediately! Even in this roughly recorded and unrehearsed live clip with my trio and a friend sitting in on vocals, you can hear how nice the guitar sounds:

that was some fine playing

[PMB]

that was some fine playing

Thanks Holger, always dig your clips as well. I'm lucky to work with such great players.

[Durban]

What would be the difference between a 90s and one from let's say early 2000s (not the one with the floater). Did they change anything over the years? Maybe the neck profile?

TIA

DB

Re ES165 necks: ive had two and played a few others, necks seem to vary a bit. I cant be totally accurate but can say my 1st 1991 was fatter chunkier but comfortable.

The 165 i have now is 2000 the neck is definitely thinner, not super thin but really comfortable................. it feels like it was made for me

Eg necks can be slimmer/ish but sometimes radius too flat or too round. Two Eastman AR371 i had were thinnish at nut and 12F area but slightly wider across say 57mm as oppessed to 53mm. I did not like them very much at all, yes initial appeal which did not last.

not just a case of thin or thick. these parameters all drop into place once you had/played a guitar for some time.


DB imo these can produce the "Thunk" which is not what some may think being merely dark/middy etc , a guitar can be dark or not bright but not have Thunk, i have heard ( not many) older players with 175 with a brighter tone and thunk, with older Gibsons and obviously older amps.

you know exactly what the THUNK is. i have you playing many times with it.

Bottom line you wont be disappointed with anES165 forget patterned headstock, an Uncluttered ES175 acoustically louder &one pup.


Even the thickest neck ES165 is not uncomfortable, i cant really put into words they just fit. I hope this helps,

[odel]

I sold my original ES-165 a few years back for something like $1400 or $1500, I think. I listed here for a while with no takers and then sold it on Reverb within a few days to a very satisfied buyer. I liked it but don’t really miss it and at the time I was exploring Hofners and other guitars, trying to figure out what I wanted. Yes, the HE was solid. I learned set-up with this guitar and it was definitely put together to last. I always thought it felt heavy and not responsive acoustically, which has largely put me off exploring the 175 style again. Seeing how prices are going, I might be fortunate to be one of the few not lusting for one, but then every guitar I actually want seems to be expensive too!

[Jerry Tubb]

My 1996 has the single humbucker in the top, and sounds great!
I also have a vintage 1961 ES-175, and they play & sound very similar.
The 165 is top quality in every regard, the neck is very straight, great nitro finish, gold appointments, etc.
Ziggy tailpiece shows No instability.
criticisms of the guitar seem like cynical malarkey IMHO.
Cheers, JT

[Jerry Tubb]

Here’s a video example on the 165, my rendition of Slow Boat.

cheers, JT

[orabbit1]

FWIW I used to own a 92 ES-165 with the top mounted full sized humbucker and it featured a 50s Gibson profile neck.

[jaymen]

I just got a 2003 Herb Ellis, ES 165 with the BJB floater.

Initial impression was it is a very good looking guitar with the flamed maple body. The waviness of the flames is visible in the finish, and it is not perfectly level, but to do so would mean tons of clear lacquer, so I'm fine with it as is. One minor flaw in the side/top edge binding where it meets the cutaway binding; the black ply of the binding disappears into the black sunburst shading of the top. Not sure if that is because the binding groove was too deep, or they just did not scrape all the paint off the white edge of the binding. No matter, it looks great as it is almost indistinguishable.

Acoustically, it is louder and has more treble than my 1989 ES-175D, but here is a slight buzz that I can hear when playing certain notes; turns out moving the shielded cable from the pot to the jack away from where it was touching the treble side brace inside resolved that. No matter, because you would never hear that buzz when plugged into an amp. And, the accoustic sound is also a no count because that is not how this guitar is made for playing. Action and play ability is great, typical Gibson. Neck and heel are beefier than my '89 ES-175D, however, it is still very comfortable to play, and not an impediment in any way, just a little different; you instantly adjust and never think about it again.

Plugged in to my '65 Deluxe Reverb, this Herb Ellis has a really good jazz sound, I like it better than my'89 ES-175D for that matter. It is richer, more woody and really accentuates that jazz tone we all know and love. It's like you are picking the notes up by the end of the neck; that warm soft smooth well defined and focused sound we so associate with Jazz guitarists of fame. And this is with round wound .11 strings, nothing special. I'll have to throw a set of TI swing series flat wounds on it and re-eveluate, but I'm sure it will only be even better, as that is what TIs do for every jazz guitar I have put them on. I only use the neck PU on my ES-175, which are the Patent No. Shaw types as supplied on these guitars. I like the BJB's sound on the Herb Ellis better, but that is very subjective; it just says "jazz" in a more convincing way to my ears.

The Zig-Zag tail piece is original, and it came with a spare, apparently the original owner was aware of it being a problem and bough an extra one "just in case".

For those who complain about the volume knob position on the pick guard, it is probably because your strumming style hits the knob and drops your volume: Most jazz players have their right hand well forward near the pick-up so in that position, you will not hit the knob; it's just a matter of refining your technique.(rock your wrist instead of your elbow when strumming) BTW, that will also result in a more Jazz-like tone. As they say, its in the fingers.

Very few downsides to this guitar when used as intended; a Jazz box. Aesthetically, as mentioned, more careful attention to sanding the maple veneer, would have eliminated the waviness in the clear finish, and as a matter of personal taste, I prefer chrome hardware. The gold plating is very nice but it eventually wears away and will look ratty with playing and time. All that would bother me if this was a wall hanger/ object d'atre, but for me, it is all about how it plays and sounds. The Herb Ellis has supplanted my ES-175D as my go-to jazz box.
Jay

[jaymen]

I found mine had a bit of a buzz on the G string, if it was plucked hard, when playing acoustically. Touching the bridge seemed to stop that, but not always. I put sleeving on the ABR-1 wire but it had no affect. Checked the nut and saddles for proper notching, and they were fine. Finally, I removed the pick guard and found the mount for the side support had come loose. I also notice the pickup was really far away from the bass side strings. Re-glued the plastic mount for the side support to the bottom of the pick guard, and cut new support posts to get the pick guard to mount correctly, as the originals were too short. This was why the support mount broke as the pick guard was being flexed excessively. Now the pick up is evenly spaced under the strings and along with the pick guard, it no longer moves around. I used a birch wood dowel, that I drilled hollow, and sleeved it with black heat shrink tubing to male the two new supports, much nicer than the plastic tubing. My ES-175 does not suffer from these issues, as the humbuckers are mounted in the top.

Bonus is that the Herb Ellis is now more feedback resistant and I can play facing my amp at moderate volume with no squeaks or howling.

[Max405]

My 1996 has the single humbucker in the top, and sounds great!
I also have a vintage 1961 ES-175, and they play & sound very similar.
The 165 is top quality in every regard, the neck is very straight, great nitro finish, gold appointments, etc.
Ziggy tailpiece shows No instability.
criticisms of the guitar seem like cynical malarkey IMHO.
Cheers, JT

That’s a beautiful guitar. Perfect as far as I’m concerned.
JD