Princeton – Reissue vs Handwired

[TOMMO]

I bet that if you could go back in time to 1965 and find a music store that has a couple of Deluxe Reverbs to choose from they would all be sounding quite different and for every great sounding example there will be a dud as well...

[KirkP]

...The point of the demonstration was sound quality, and my question was why hand-wired amps sound better. That is the mystique. Do they objectively convey signals better than PCB amps, or is it that they produce a sound we associate with a good amp – for historical and cultural reasons?

There is no reason to believe that hand wiring vs. PCB have any effect on sound quality by themselves. If the PCB amp has parts that are out of spec, or poor construction (e.g., bad soldering), or if the board has a poor wiring layout there will be differences in sound quality, but the PCB construction isn’t the cause.

If Fender’s handwired amps sound different than their PCB amps, I’d attribute that to other factors than the use of PCBs. Since they charge much more for the handwired amps, it’s likely they are also taking more care in quality control to help justify that premium price.

I’ll also cynically suggest that Fender could intentionally design a PCB amp to have a somewhat different (not necessarily worse) sound than it’s hand-wired namesake to give the potential buyer a sense that the more expensive amp has some special mojo that that’s missing in the less expensive amp. That’s a well worn marketing technique. I’m not claiming that Fender has actually done this, and I’m not addressing other issues such as reliability, ease of mods, maintainability, etc.

[Litterick]

Making and selling stuff is all about price points. The PCB Princeton will be in the same market as any number of mass-produced amps. The hand-wired Princeton will compete with the boutique amps. Most visitors to the shop will baulk at paying the price of two Princetons for one with hand-wiring. Some will think it worth the expense.

I think what they are getting is the sound of a hand-wired amp, rather than anything objectively better than PCB. Rock culture is nostalgic by its nature, always preferring guitars and amps from the ‘50s and ‘60s to anything new. The hand-wired amp gives the buyer the sound of the past.

[pauln]

The search for differences in sound was compromised by a strong difference in reverb level, but the elephant in the room was the outrageous noisy guitar hum/buzz EM interference... the condensing mic used for the video to suppress that mess is not really suitable for comparisons.

[John A.]

At the beginning, the other guy says that the amps have slightly different circuits and different components. Right off the bat, it's not an all-else-equal comparison between hand-wired and PCB, before we even get to speakers and cabinets. It's also only a test of two individual amps; a different pair might sound more alike (e.g., because of component tolerances). But once they plugged the PCB amp into the other's cabinet the sounds were very close.

Also, with a strat, you don't get anywhere near the amount of break up through a PR that you do with humbuckers, even with the amp turned way up. So, to compare the amps' headroom, OD characteristics, and low-frequency tightness at loud volumes, I think also doing this with a humbucker equipped guitar would be a much better test of these two amps' differences. So all in all, I think it's a fair a test of the question "do these two individual amps sound identical?" (no, they don't), is not a test of whether the difference is due to the construction methods, and is only a partial catalog of the differences (or the degree to which the differences disappear with other guitars).

Nice try, but no cigar.

John

[alltunes]

Hand wired probably more reliable in the long run. Hand -wired sounded better but throw an EP booster in front of the circuit board amp and you might get close.

I drank the boutique kool-aid....I have a Lil' King Reverb with a 12" speaker.

[Dana]

I drank the boutique kool-aid....I have a Lil' King Reverb with a 12" speaker.

Me too. Killer amp!

[medblues]

I A/B/C'ed the PRRI, PR Chris Stapleton Brown and a Carr Rambler and ended up with the Rambler. Not just for the hand-wiring but for the triode option (nice for jazz), mid control knob, 12" Eminence Elsinore speaker, hand-picked tubes and the lower noise floor.

[PDeville]

I A/B/C'ed the PRRI, PR Chris Stapleton Brown and a Carr Rambler and ended up with the Rambler. Not just for the hand-wiring but for the triode option (nice for jazz), mid control knob, 12" Eminence Elsinore speaker, hand-picked tubes and the lower noise floor.

What did you think of the Chris Stapleton? I would like a small warm sounding amp, and consider another Brown panel amp. The Lil Dawg amps look like very nice alternative.
Carr are very nice amps, but well over $2000, I think.

[medblues]

What did you think of the Chris Stapleton? I would like a small warm sounding amp, and consider another Brown panel amp. The Lil Dawg amps look like very nice alternative.
Carr are very nice amps, but well over $2000, I think.

It had less headroom and was less suitable for jazz, higher noise floor (maybe curable with tube change ?).

Carr Rambler is expensive new but only in comparison to the PCB versions. Allen Amps Sweet Spot (in between price point) is one you might want to compare to Headstrong Lil King. The ones Lil Dawg Amps have are based on different (earlier ?) circuits with which I am not familiar.

Ceriatone out of Malaysia has a much cheaper but well-liked head version called Prinzetone that I looked into. American Classics PrinzeTone | Ceriatone

[Litterick]

Compare and contrast: the Princeton Reverb II, one of the last Fender amps with hand-wound circuitry as standard.

[Herbie]

Compare and contrast: the Princeton Reverb II, one of the last Fender amps with hand-wound circuitry as standard.

”I would have named it something more... brutal!”

I somehow like Segeborns videos. Very straightforward attitude in guitar and the gear... Everything to ten and go!

[PDeville]

Has anyone tried this 68 Princeton Reissue? Does it have a warmer more midrange sound that 65 Reissue.

[waltf]

i think they sound great.
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...iJso3pjbMnP2q9

[Tal_175]

Has anyone tried this 68 Princeton Reissue? Does it have a warmer more midrange sound that 65 Reissue.

Yes, but also less headroom. The difference is think mostly in the tone stack. I was able to dial in very similar sounds between the two of them by using a pedal into the 65 once. You can get the 65 sound like the 68 with a pedal but not the other way around, I don't think.

[Robertito]

Has anyone tried this 68 Princeton Reissue? Does it have a warmer more midrange sound that 65 Reissue.

I agree with Tal. My show tour bought one and I have to use it; the mid and bottom is so strong I ended up doing a mod to make it clearer. For my taste the '65 sounds much better, and is more versatile.

[Hammertone]

I prefer handwired.
Especially when I have a handwired one built to put out 35 watts, with a 12" speaker.
And even more so when it's for sale.
On this forum.

[Hammertone]

In case anyone in particular is wondering, I have come to the conclusion, after moving recently, that I no longer need 30 great amplifiers to make me happy. These days I can be happy with 10 or 15 great amplifiers. I'm down to 20 or so. Help a brother out in his pursuit of happiness!

The same goes for guitars, but this is an amp thread.
About Princetons.
Like the handwired one I have.
It gets far too little playing time.
And is for sale.
On this forum.

[TOMMO]

I can be happy with 10 or 15 great amplifiers. I'm down to 20 or so.

Only 5 amps away from happiness and coming from the other side to boot!

[Wildcat]

A shameless plug for selling an item. Who would have thought it coming from you Hammertone?

I prefer handwired.
Especially when I have a handwired one built to put out 35 watts, with a 12" speaker.
And even more so when it's for sale.
On this forum.