Matthew Woodall 17" Archtop

[Kirk1701]

Hi! This is my first thread here, though I've been lurking for years.

Background: The first music that I really connected with (around 10-12 yo) was swing. As I got older, I moved into rock and blues where I spent a lot of time.

I finally managed to get a 1954 Epiphone Century w CC pickup from the great and wonderful Hammertone (a great fellow Canadian). It rekindled my love of swing rhythm (including gypsy swing), but as I practiced, I realized the playability wasn't there. It reluctantly let it go this past spring as I'd stopped playing it and jazz in general.

Wouldn't you believe it, the guitar wasn't out of the house a week before I was chopping out rhythms on my Walden G570 flattop. This guitar was barely $300, but it's my favourite guitar. I don't know why. It just "fits." I must've got a good one because it plays better than many Martins I've played. It shouldn't play and sound so good, but it does. The reason I mention this is I measure every guitar by it.

I've always wanted a proper carved top swing rhythm box. I love the tone of the vintage Epiphone I owned and others I've heard. I want to find an acoustic archtop that works as well for me as the Walden. Something I immediately reach for. It should also play as easily and swiftly.

The problem is, I need to live with a guitar for awhile before I'm certain it's "mine." I also haven't played a ton of higher-end archtops because they're not readily available. I need a feel education with the main players. You don’t know what you don't know. Maybe I hate archtops; maybe I need a Selmer-Maccaferri style guitar. Or maybe my flattop is all I need.

I don't even know where to start. Thanks to covid, we can't just wander into shops and play, even if they had 1940s era Epiphone Broadway/Triumphs and DeLuxes (what I'm really itching to try). I've always been willing to shop for years to find the right instrument and I often have. Pricing is always an issue, as it is with everyone.

Okay, to come to a conclusion and maybe conversation starter, I did come across an interesting guitar at The Twelfth Fret I'd like to make you all aware of. It's a Matthew Woodall 17" archtop, who they've never heard of (nor I for that matter). It's quite interesting though and the price is attractive. I'd be interested to hear what you guys thought.

Matthew Woodall Archtop Guitar, 1999 | www.12fret.com

Sent from my SGH-I337M using Tapatalk

[coolvinny]

Seems like a decent price for a carved-top guitar, but note:
- 25.5" scale may be long
- 17" body may be big
- resale will be tough given the builder's obscurity and the niche status of jazzboxes, but hey you won't find too many carved top jazzboxes at that price.

[floatingpickup]

That weird burl in the area of the cutaway would make the guitar a non-starter for me.
Keith

[wintermoon]

it looks like a guitar made w/poor materials that was made in a guitar building class

[citizenk74]

[Kirk1701]

it looks like a guitar made w/poor materials that was made in a guitar building class

What makes you say that?

It's so difficult to tell without having it in-hand. This is a big issue with buying acoustic instruments online. For me, playability is key. I don't care about cosmetics so long as it plays and sounds right.

[wintermoon]

What makes you say that?

It's so difficult to tell without having it in-hand. This is a big issue with buying acoustic instruments online. For me, playability is key. I don't care about cosmetics so long as it plays and sounds right.

Agreed, really need to have it in hand for an accurate assessment, but at minimum that spalting defect in the maple back would almost never be acceptable on a 2k instrument. Doesn't affect the build but makes me wonder.

[Kirk1701]

Agreed, really need to have it in hand for an accurate assessment, but at minimum that spalting defect in the maple back would almost never be acceptable on a 2k instrument. Doesn't affect the build but makes me wonder.

I don't know if the spalting is a defect or a specific choice. It's not particularly chic, but I have seen it on some telecaster builds.

The headstock is the only portion of the guitar I find particularly janky.

Sent from my SGH-I337M using Tapatalk

[Jehu]

Agreed, really need to have it in hand for an accurate assessment, but at minimum that spalting defect in the maple back would almost never be acceptable on a 2k instrument. Doesn't affect the build but makes me wonder.

Ya gotta go all or nothing with spalting...

[Gabor]

... bookmatched mapple, weird. Like somebody had practiced bookmatching, but did not want to risk to waste a premium material. Also that patch like thing on the cutaway... something stinks. For this price I would go for a new Eastman, or if a the preference is vintage then an 70 years old Epi (Kay) or Levin.

[Woody Sound]

That weird burl in the area of the cutaway would make the guitar a non-starter for me.
Keith

Wes Mo would have liked it for his fingers!

[Sam Sherry]

Hi! This is my first thread here, though I've been lurking for years.

Welcome. Nicely done!

Matthew Woodall 17" archtop, who they've never heard of (nor I for that matter). It's quite interesting though and the price is attractive.

it looks like a guitar made w/poor materials that was made in a guitar building class

Yeah, my thought was that somebody bought the Benedetto book and made it work.

Like Kirk, I'm drawn in by the prospect of owning a full-size solid-wood jazz guitar at the lower end of the price range. There have been many stops along the way. I've got my eye on several right now, because I'm a blinkin' gearhead.

Kirk, I don't know much but as you set out on your journey here's me:
I learn about guitars, music and myself from checking out guitars.
I have to pay to learn, so I don't ever buy a guitar planning to make my money back.
There are plenty of guitars at the bottom of the market with great aspects and plenty to teach.
There are very few 'home run' guitars at any price point. Yes, really.
Today's home run is tomorrow's frustration. Today's 'not on your life' is tomorrow's satisfaction.

Have fun and report back.

[Kirk1701]

Welcome. Nicely done!




Yeah, my thought was that somebody bought the Benedetto book and made it work.

Like Kirk, I'm drawn in by the prospect of owning a full-size solid-wood jazz guitar at the lower end of the price range. There have been many stops along the way. I've got my eye on several right now, because I'm a blinkin' gearhead.

Kirk, I don't know much but as you set out on your journey here's me:
I learn about guitars, music and myself from checking out guitars.
I have to pay to learn, so I don't ever buy a guitar planning to make my money back.
There are plenty of guitars at the bottom of the market with great aspects and plenty to teach.
There are very few 'home run' guitars at any price point. Yes, really.
Today's home run is tomorrow's frustration. Today's 'not on your life' is tomorrow's satisfaction.

Have fun and report back.

Thanks Sam. I agree with a good deal of what you say.

I've been playing music for nearly 35 years now (guitar specifically for 25), so my sense of feel and tone has far exceeded my budget. I suppose that's true of all of us.

Here's some of my rules in no particular order:

A. I don't buy guitars sight-unseen anymore. I might gamble on a solid body electric, but acoustics are so individual you have ZERO idea what you're getting. It's not just the tone. It's the relationship between player and instrument. Do I play it well? Could it help me improve? Do my musician friends think it's a good match for me? Couple these variables with the price tag of most archtops and the odds are worse than the lottery.

B. I can't buy Chinese. (This isn't xenophobia, I hasten to say. My main flattop is Chinese. I was very fortunate to find it when I did. I believe it was between 2004 and 2007 when I bought it. I was less picky then.) IME, Chinese acoustic guitars cannot keep up with Japanese or North American. If you have any kind of ear, even terrible quality YouTube videos bear this out. This isn't to say there can't be a "home-run" Chinese instrument. I happen to own one. I had the advantage of playing that guitar for awhile before deciding to buy it. I was certain it was a keeper. If I wanted to sell it, I don't think I could get $150 for it. *Exception: I will consider a Chinese-made gypsy jazz guitar. I played a lot of Gitanes when they first hit shelves and I liked them. I haven't played them since, though.

C. I don't generally look at Gibsons, if you can believe it. I much prefer the Epiphone/Guild, D'Angelico/D'Aquisto tonal palattes. Gibsons are beautifully proportioned and appointed guitars, but they fight me at every turn. The ES-335/345/355s are notable exceptions, but even they have to be perfect.

I have these rules because I'm a player, not a collector. A guitar that isn't being played is slowly dying. This is a fact of all acoustic instruments. Stradivari from the 16th century must be played or they're just another old fiddle. A pretty, expensive guitar that I don't play is an albatross, not an asset.



Sent from my SGH-I337M using Tapatalk

[SierraTango]

Welcome to the community Kirk!
Since you took the time to research and find the Woodall guitar at 12th fret, I would guess it appeals to you. That's a pretty well known shop and I'm sure they have some type of return policy. If you don't care for it,any reputable shop will take it back and the only expense is shipping both ways. Have you contacted 12th fret about this option?

Also, I'm sure you are aware of the For Sale section of the Forum. Since you have mentioned your interest in Vintage Epi's, what could it hurt to post a WTB in the For Sale section? Many members here have multiple instruments and you never know,they may be thinking of selling off some gear. Which,sad to say,is a reality in the times in which we live. 2K might find you a wonderful non-cut Triumph that someone would like to see go to a player.

Happy Hunting!

[Max405]

Wes Mo would have liked it!

Now THATS a guitar!

Ya gotta go all or nothing with spalting...

Actually, that’s pretty nice too.
JD

[Hammertone]

Why not come into town and play it? The Fret is open by appointment and it's not that far away from you.
[ed: I was wrong about this - they are doing appointments for curbside pickup & dropoff. No in-store action. However, they are offering customers more time to evaluate their purchases, with extra tme to decide if they want to return stuff.]

Vintage carved Epis are a good suggestion as an alternative, especially if you don't need a cutaway.

[Kirk1701]

Why not come into town and play it? The Fret is open by appointment and it's not that far away from you.

Vintage carved Epis are a good suggestion as an alternative, especially if you don't need a cutaway.

I think this is the best approach. I could easily slip down there and play through a number of guitars if they're okay with me doing that.

Damned covid! One used to be able to drop into a shop, spend the afternoon playing guitars, then go home and think about what you liked and didn’t like. If there was something you couldn't stop thinking about, then you knew what to save up for.

Sent from my SGH-I337M using Tapatalk

[Kirk1701]

Welcome to the community Kirk!
Since you took the time to research and find the Woodall guitar at 12th fret, I would guess it appeals to you. That's a pretty well known shop and I'm sure they have some type of return policy. If you don't care for it,any reputable shop will take it back and the only expense is shipping both ways. Have you contacted 12th fret about this option?

Also, I'm sure you are aware of the For Sale section of the Forum. Since you have mentioned your interest in Vintage Epi's, what could it hurt to post a WTB in the For Sale section? Many members here have multiple instruments and you never know,they may be thinking of selling off some gear. Which,sad to say,is a reality in the times in which we live. 2K might find you a wonderful non-cut Triumph that someone would like to see go to a player.

Happy Hunting!

Thanks for your thoughts.

I'm not a huge fan of paying that kind of $ to simply test something. Not only do I not have it lying about, I don't care for the "pay-to-play" principle. It's unjust/unfair to my mind.

I need to be completely objective when assessing something like that. If I've already plunked cash down, I'm going to be justifying it to myself before the guitar even gets to my hands.

This is just my particular mental illness, lol. Some guys enjoy the gamble, I don't. It's just one big anxiety ball for me.

Re. Epi Triumphs/Broadways, I have noticed how comparatively affordable these are. If I had to pick the ideal Epi tone it would be a 1937-1939 DeLuxes. They seem to have the most complex bark of all of them. They're the same 17" carved bodies as the Triumphs etc, they simply have more appointments.