Guitar Amp for Low Volumes

**christianm77** · 07-20-2020, 04:32 PM

Lol yeah. What's that thing you can't polish again?

**Marcel_A** · 07-21-2020, 02:19 AM

@christianm77
i don’t know about that. Most amps i played during my ‘carreer’ were pretty allround.
rivera r55
mesa studio 22
koch twintone
jc 120

**christianm77** · 07-21-2020, 07:07 AM

Originally Posted by Marcel_A

@christianm77
i don’t know about that. Most amps i played during my ‘carreer’ were prettig allround.
rivera r55
mesa studio 22
koch twintone
jc 120

Not sure if I get you... but a JC120 an 'all rounder amp?' hmmm... I actually like JC's but I am a freak.

In seriousness, I've gone all out in being quite specific about what I want in a tube amp because I hear things in a certain way. I want something with a lot of clean headroom on the speaker, and if I want just a tinge of crunch I can push it in the preamp section. I have no interest in speaker distortion and I'm not primarily looking to drive the amp itself into heavy overdrive...

Like, I just wouldn't use a Mesa, never really got on with them, I'm not sure why. Maybe too configurable for me? In general I am against versatility in tone. I think you should have one basic tone and work with it. Maybe that's why I don't get any function band calls haha.

I'm still not certain REALLY like Fender tube amps for jazz either. They have nice qualities, but I find them hard to play and sometimes just a bit too scooped on one night and a bit too ice picky another (need an EQ for one of these). There's a thing that a Fender amp does that sometimes just makes me think 'meh'; on a tour or something I feel like I'm learning to play the Fender sound, and I kind of resent it. But they are fairly consistent and uniform - Deluxes, Twins and a Hot Rods are not wildly different, and that's what the clubs usually have if they have a house amp (Although please don't make me play through a Blue Junior.) I myself have a Princeton with a swapped speaker that makes it more useful as a giving amp.

I do I love the blues sound you get out of a slightly pushed blackface with a single coil guitar. Which is to say, really not very distorted, maybe a TS-9 at unity on the gain and boosting a bit on the volume side, the volume of the amp (maybe power amp clipping as well) makes the sound sustain without losing that clarity.

I do weirdly pine for a Marshall though. Under-rated as clean amps IMO. My first gigging amp was an original Plexi that we were lent and I ran it basically clean with pedals in my high school indie rock band (I couldn't dime it in the small clubs we were playing). Sounded fantastic even though that's against the law in most countries.

Come to think of it old school no master volume Marshalls tick a lot of my boxes lol. No shortage of headroom haha. Just bring a stack to the lounge gig.

**Marcel_A** · 07-21-2020, 09:26 AM

The jc is used for all kinds of genres. That aside: most amps i used were NOT for a specific sound. Most amps i know aren’t for that matter. You suggested that was the case.

**Stefan Eff** · 07-21-2020, 01:53 PM

Trying different tubes is like trying different strings on your guitar, a speaker swap is comparable to a pickup swap...
I agree, every amp got it‘s basic tone but you‘re able to give it a finetuning with those little modifications. For example:
A regular 8“ speaker is a boxy sounding little beast. Swap for a high efficient speaker like a Warehouse and you‘ll achieve a lot more volume and 3-D tone. Works great in Champs and of course in the Cub8.

**Marcel_A** · 07-21-2020, 01:55 PM

I want less volume!

**christianm77** · 07-21-2020, 02:02 PM

Originally Posted by Marcel_A

The jc is used for all kinds of genres. That aside: most amps i used were NOT for a specific sound. Most amps i know aren’t for that matter. You suggested that was the case.

Look, I’m a pretty straight jazz guitarist, when I use an amp I have a specific set of needs quite different from a rock covers player, for example.

JCs take pedals well don’t they? Why not a small JC?

I think if you want versatility there’s plenty of options of the modelling variety.

OTOH my PRRI makes a very nice practice amp for lush cleans.

Or get a Marshall stack and an OxBox ;-)

**Tal_175** · 07-21-2020, 02:43 PM

Originally Posted by christianm77

Not sure if I get you... but a JC120 an 'all rounder amp?' hmmm... I actually like JC's but I am a freak.

In seriousness, I've gone all out in being quite specific about what I want in a tube amp because I hear things in a certain way. I want something with a lot of clean headroom on the speaker, and if I want just a tinge of crunch I can push it in the preamp section. I have no interest in speaker distortion and I'm not primarily looking to drive the amp itself into heavy overdrive...

Like, I just wouldn't use a Mesa, never really got on with them, I'm not sure why. Maybe too configurable for me? In general I am against versatility in tone. I think you should have one basic tone and work with it. Maybe that's why I don't get any function band calls haha.

I'm still not certain REALLY like Fender tube amps for jazz either. They have nice qualities, but I find them hard to play and sometimes just a bit too scooped on one night and a bit too ice picky another (need an EQ for one of these). There's a thing that a Fender amp does that sometimes just makes me think 'meh'; on a tour or something I feel like I'm learning to play the Fender sound, and I kind of resent it. But they are fairly consistent and uniform - Deluxes, Twins and a Hot Rods are not wildly different, and that's what the clubs usually have if they have a house amp (Although please don't make me play through a Blue Junior.) I myself have a Princeton with a swapped speaker that makes it more useful as a giving amp.

I do I love the blues sound you get out of a slightly pushed blackface with a single coil guitar. Which is to say, really not very distorted, maybe a TS-9 at unity on the gain and boosting a bit on the volume side, the volume of the amp (maybe power amp clipping as well) makes the sound sustain without losing that clarity.

I do weirdly pine for a Marshall though. Under-rated as clean amps IMO. My first gigging amp was an original Plexi that we were lent and I ran it basically clean with pedals in my high school indie rock band (I couldn't dime it in the small clubs we were playing). Sounded fantastic even though that's against the law in most countries.

Come to think of it old school no master volume Marshalls tick a lot of my boxes lol. No shortage of headroom haha. Just bring a stack to the lounge gig.

So serious question. If you don't like Fender Blackfaces, Mesas and Marshall's don't have the headroom in a reasonable size, which tube amps do you like? Most boutique amps are clones of one of these.

You might actually like Tweed Deluxe (it does have headroom for small venues). But I think a Princeton with some EQ control in pedal format is hard to beat.

**ruger9** · 07-21-2020, 03:30 PM

Originally Posted by Marcel_A

I want less volume!

Harmony 8418

**christianm77** · 07-21-2020, 03:41 PM

Originally Posted by Tal_175

So serious question. If you don't like Fender Blackfaces, Mesas and Marshall's don't have the headroom in a reasonable size, which tube amps do you like? Most boutique amps are clones of one of these.

You might actually like Tweed Deluxe (it does have headroom for small venues). But I think a Princeton with some EQ control in pedal format is hard to beat.

I plugged in my Princeton after posting and quite liked it

**Stefan Eff** · 07-21-2020, 04:51 PM

Meanwhile we‘re far off topic

**Gitfiddler** · 07-21-2020, 04:55 PM

I don't think the Fender Rivera-era Super Champ (18 watt) amp has been mentioned in this thread. Sorry if it was, but this is one of my favorite small amps. I've owned three or four of them over the years and still have two. One is connected to a 1x12 ext. speaker cab and they both have upgraded internal Emi 10" speakers.

Here's another thread from a few years ago discussing this unique amp:
Fender Super Champ (Rivera Era)

**wzpgsr** · 07-21-2020, 05:16 PM

Really, at low volumes, the differences between clean amp tones of this amp versus that amp are not astronomical—definitely not worth the many hours I’ve spent poring over this very topic myself. Unless you‘re after wildly atypical jazz tones, you’re basically going to get subtle shades of difference in the color of the sound.

I just got a somewhat hard-to-find Lab Series L3 for ~$250. Small, light, in no way loud. Perfect for home practice. It’s flexible tonally and can cover both flat and bright variants of “typical” jazz sounds—not terribly different from my experience with Henriksen and better sounding than the Polytone I had—firmly in the non-tweed camp.

**christianm77** · 07-21-2020, 05:23 PM

I do think I like tweeds also. BF's are just a bit scooped so I end up offsetting with a mid hump. Then I look at my EQ pedal and think 'sometimes I wonder at the amp choice I have made here.' The Princeton - or any amp - is a different beast in the practice room and on stage of course.

To call the PRRI a 'small amp' would make sense to many players. The originals are like - 12 watts? It does sound very good at reasonable volume as well... just don't expect it to crunch.

Suppose I could mod it further! :-)

Do I like valve amps? I'm honestly not sure for the stuff I do, and the guitars I have.

I do very much like the Morgan PR-12. Heavy though.

**Tal_175** · 07-21-2020, 06:05 PM

Low volume doesn't mean small amp. Small amp doesn't mean low volume. Many people like Champs because you can overdrive them at a "reasonable volume". That reasonable volume is not low volume. I use one some times at smallish venues. Even with a drummer (jazz drummer that is) it's too loud to crank it.

Most bigger amps sound good at low volumes. A Champ at low a volume will sound different than a bigger amp at the same volume but not necessarily better. Buy a small amp if you like the sound of a small amp.

**christianm77** · 07-21-2020, 06:08 PM

OK, this is quite connected to the OP. I would quite like a dinky little tube head with a bit of a warm crunchy blues sound for my TOOB metro. What's a good shout?

**christianm77** · 07-21-2020, 06:11 PM

Originally Posted by Tal_175

Low volume doesn't mean small amp. Small amp doesn't mean low volume. Many people like Champs because you can overdrive them at a "reasonable volume". That reasonable volume is not low volume. I use one some times at smallish venues. Even with a drummer (jazz drummer that is) it's too loud to crank it.

Most bigger amps sound good at low volumes. A Champ at low a volume will sound different than a bigger amp at the same volume but not necessarily better. Buy a small amp if you like the sound of a small amp.

Well I always think of those things as recording amps. So, they give you a good range of sounds without you having to turn them up to silly volume. That's why you have to mod some of them a little to make them into useable gigging amps.

(The last time I took my PRRI into a recording environment (very live room) I had to turn it down to like 1.5. I really wanted a pokey little 5w valve amp in that moment. Or an attenuator...)

A practice amp is somewhat distinct from this in some ways, but basically similar. TBH as a jazzer, I'm just going 'clean'; so one amp is fine. I'm not gunning it live. But it does feel different.

**Tal_175** · 07-21-2020, 06:30 PM

Originally Posted by christianm77

Well I always think of those things as recording amps. So, they give you a good range of sounds without you having to turn them up to silly volume. That's why you have to mod some of them a little to make them into useable gigging amps.

(The last time I took my PRRI into a recording environment (very live room) I had to turn it down to like 1.5. I really wanted a pokey little 5w valve amp in that moment. Or an attenuator...)

A practice amp is somewhat distinct from this in some ways, but basically similar. TBH as a jazzer, I'm just going 'clean'; so one amp is fine. I'm not gunning it live. But it does feel different.

Yes but studio low volume is different than apartment or a family townhouse low volume. A PRRI can be cranked in a studio but not in most homes. So I think practice amp is a different notion than studio recording amp.

I don't know OP's living situation, but in my home practice situation, volume-wise there isn't a whole a lot of difference between a Deluxe Reverb or a Champ: volume at 3 or 4 max if not digging hard.

Where I do band rehearsals, the situation isn't that different. Sometimes we book rehearsal rooms, then cranking becomes a possibility. But I like my amps at volume 4 or 5 max anyway.

**christianm77** · 07-21-2020, 06:41 PM

Originally Posted by Tal_175

Yes but studio low volume is different than apartment or a family townhouse low volume. A PRRI can be cranked in a studio but not in most homes. So I think practice amp is a different notion than studio recording amp.

I wouldn't even crank the PRRI in the studio tbh. It's actually pretty powerful (esp with the more efficient speaker) and you have to isolate it which can be a pain if you are recording live in a small studio. That said, I'm really not a fan of the way Fender amps sound LOUD anyway, so I'd rather use a boost pedal or something to hit the preamp a bit. But yeah, Princeton is a bit too much these days.

Everything's down scaled now.

A Laney Cub 8 is a good choice actually. I've recorded with one of those. Or a Champ of course. If you don't want something perfectly clean.

(Again noting what sits in a mix isn't necessarily what sounds good in the practice room.)

I don't know OP's living situation, but in my home practice situation there isn't a whole a lot of difference between a Deluxe Reverb or a Champ: volume at 3 or 4 max if not digging hard.

Which as I say is just great for a jazzer. BF amps sound lovely low. I've never really felt the need for a practice amp except for drive sounds perhaps (but not really, because we have these things called pedals that they invented.)

Better than at gig levels TBH where they can get icepicks if you aren't careful. My god I had a fight with mine at a gig just before lock down, kind of put me off it.

**Thumpalumpacus** · 07-21-2020, 08:36 PM

Originally Posted by Stefan Eff

Like most guitars most tube amps need a little modification. Different tubes and/or speakers can do wonders on amps. That‘s why e.g. Swart offers different speaker options or in the STR-Tremolo the 6V6 OR 6L6 option.

Sure. I put 6L6s in my Tweaker 15 too. I just generally prefer not having to mod, but buying what pleases me.

**Stefan Eff** · 07-22-2020, 03:31 AM

The crux with bedroom levels is the minimum „heat“ a tube amp needs to sound good. Even a 5 watter gets really loud if the tubes run at their sweet spot (e.g. Champ at 7-8, guitar volume turned down to achieve the perfect pick dynamic between clean and dirt).

Those amps sound good at lower levels but not to compare if turned up. Some like it hot ;-)

**Marcel_A** · 07-22-2020, 06:33 AM

That is the reason (among other things) i like the little jazz. It really sounds good at low levels.

**ruger9** · 07-22-2020, 06:41 AM

Originally Posted by christianm77

OK, this is quite connected to the OP. I would quite like a dinky little tube head with a bit of a warm crunchy blues sound for my TOOB metro. What's a good shout?

Dinky Tube Head? Joyo Beale Street. 5E3 clone.

Ugly tho...
Guitar Amp for Low Volumes-jpg

If you're willing to do miniature tubes... look into Biyang

Guitar Amp for Low Volumes-b-jpg

**christianm77** · 07-22-2020, 08:16 AM

I’ve seen the Biyang; looks cute.

**christianm77** · 07-22-2020, 08:18 AM

Originally Posted by Stefan Eff

The crux with bedroom levels is the minimum „heat“ a tube amp needs to sound good. Even a 5 watter gets really loud if the tubes run at their sweet spot (e.g. Champ at 7-8, guitar volume turned down to achieve the perfect pick dynamic between clean and dirt).

Those amps sound good at lower levels but not to compare if turned up. Some like it hot ;-)

The fact that I don’t really like how Fender amps sound when turned up to gig volumes is one of the reasons I suspect I don’t really like tube amps.