Fender Super Champ (Rivera Era)

**Jazzman301** · 07-30-2015, 09:58 AM

In my quest for a small tube amp I have come across the Fender Super Champ from the Rivera era.

I was curious if anyone had any experience with these. Seems like a solid deal and can be found around $650-$1,100 depending on condition etc...

1x10" Combo18 watt RMS
Controls: volume (pull for lead), treble (pull for mid boost), bass, reverb, lead level, master.
1-input, 2-channel
1x 7025, 1x 12AT7, 1x 6C10 Triple triode and 2x 6V6
Solid-state diode rectified
Accutronics 3-spring reverb
Class AB, push–pull
Thanks for your time and information.

**jaco** · 07-30-2015, 10:04 AM

I recently played a Rivera era Fender Concert at a gig. Easily one of the best tube combo amps I've ever played.

TH · 07-30-2015, 12:23 PM

These amps were a real high point in small amp Fender history. I thought the Champs were Class A electronics, power of a Princeton and very compact. Some people didn't like the Rivera mods but I've always found them a really nice addition to the circuitry of the early CBS designs. A matter of taste. I've always loved the immediate response of the Champs, and I use one a lot. I also have a Rivera Princeton II. I love that too.
Try it, if you like it, snap it up. They're not the most common amps on the planet.
David

**Greentone** · 07-30-2015, 12:31 PM

The Rivera amps don't get enough lovin', as far as I'm concerned. I have played both the Super Champ and the Concert. They are two of the best small amps around. (Actually, the Concert will kick some serious tail on a stage.) Fender was still doing the hand-wired thing, at that point. Those amps are worthy of your consideration. I think the Rivera-era Concert is one of Fender's best.

**Jazzman301** · 07-30-2015, 03:37 PM

The Concert and Super Champ are in the same price range oddly enough. I don't really do enough big volume gigs to justify a 60watt amp. I think it will be hard to get it to its sweet spot in small gigs and certainly at home.

Problem is none of these amps are very local. I MAY be able to see one just over an hour away from me in CT.

In truth the Super Champ sounds like its going to fit my bill of about 20 watts, tube, reverb, and small and relatively light.

I was hoping someone had some experience or a point of comparison.

The Super Champ or the PRRI? hmmm.

'Moe

**Sam Sherry** · 07-30-2015, 05:14 PM

I've owned the 80s hand-wired Super Champ twice over the years. I had one until a few weeks ago when it went to fund a guitar which I could not pass up. It's a really handy tool, great for anyplace you would use a Deluxe Reverb.

The original SC is essentially a single-channel Fender Deluxe Reverb, with a tacked-on switchable distortion stage but no tremolo, jammed into a Champ-size box and driving a 10". It's a great amp with a great sound once you replace the Fender speaker. I particularly dig it with the Eminence Lil Buddy hemp-cone -- an highly efficient driver with some added thickness in the bass. More volume and more bottom tend the reduce the inherent weaknesses of single-10" amps.

The clean voice is great -- right down the pike classic Princeton Reverb but with enough volume to get the job done. The distortion "channel" is not what I'm interested in. Note that the distortion stage pirates the reverb recovery stage so if you're in the distortion mode the reverb is gone. Personally I like the shorter 3-spring reverb tank -- it's less 'surf-y' but suits my ear really well. I don't miss tremolo either.

If you can find an extra 12-pin 6C10 compactron tube do it. That reverb recovery stage is gonna go some day; nobody has made the tube since the 80s and there is no 100% substitute.

**AlainJazz** · 07-30-2015, 05:19 PM

Originally Posted by jaco

I recently played a Rivera era Fender Concert at a gig. Easily one of the best tube combo amps I've ever played.

I completed hated mine and thought it was easily the worst of many tube amps I've owned. Sterile would be a kind adjective for it, but I accept that tastes differ. Ymmv.

**Klatu** · 07-30-2015, 05:49 PM

Originally Posted by AlainJazz

I completed hated mine and thought it was easily the worst of many tube amps I've owned. Sterile would be a kind adjective for it, but I accept that tastes differ. Ymmv.

My experience was the same as yours. The cleans were uninspiring, and the distortion as buzzy and unpleasant as I've heard from any amp.

I've heard that the amps were inconsistent, so it's possible that there are some examples out there that sound miles better than the one I owned; however, I wouldn't take that chance after having had my experience.

**Jimmy Mack** · 07-31-2015, 08:52 PM

Sorry for you, fellas, my Concert is just one of those amps I don't think I ever want to be without. I have the 2 - 10 version. The stock spkrs. are the Fender/Eminence issues. I just had it re-capped, tuned up, and re-tubed, and then it went thru a basement flood.

Long story, but, it survived and sounds great. The Tone Tubby speaker (1) I put in it died, but the Eminence sounds great still ??? The other Eminence went into my Princeton Reverb, and man, what a winning combination that is! Think Eminence Legend 1058.

I got this Concert amp in a trade (from a guy in CT). He wanted my Super Champ !!! So he paid me some cash and gave me this Concert. I didn't like the SC (too small sounding even in a 2 -12 cab). He needed small, and i needed the Rivera features but big. So the Concert I got is just a BIG Super Champ. But boy, does it do Fender! And it sounds great at bedroom volume, while being very muscular in live gigs.

Quote:Jaco: I recently played a Rivera era Fender Concert at a gig. Easily one of the best tube combo amps I've ever played.

Quote: Greentone:

The Rivera amps don't get enough lovin', as far as I'm concerned. I have played both the Super Champ and the Concert. They are two of the best small amps around. (Actually, the Concert will kick some serious tail on a stage.) Fender was still doing the hand-wired thing, at that point. Those amps are worthy of your consideration. I think the Rivera-era Concert is one of Fender's best.

Sorry to be repeating what others have said, but I strongly agree with them. If you can buy a Rivera/Fender, do it now.
If someone offered you a '58 - '62 Corvette(in great condition), wouldn't you buy it?

**Jazzman301** · 07-31-2015, 09:04 PM

I'm going to check it out Saturday. I've tossed around the idea of the bigger Concert but just not sure I'll need that much. I mostly do duo gigs and small/medium venues.

Is the concert just a bigger version of the Super champ? I'd be all over the super champ if it had a 12" speaker.

Are the tubes the same from the concert to the Super champ? I'm worried about finding tubes.

Any sound comparison? Like the SC is like a Princeton or a deluxe? Concert is closer to a deluxe or a twin?

Thanks man

**Jimmy Mack** · 07-31-2015, 10:47 PM

Some Concerts have a single 12".

It's a way bigger version of the SC. Heavier too. Many more tubes in the Concert, but they are all your normal available tubes, 12 ax7's at7's and 6L6's. A reverb to die for.

My Super Champ didn't do for me what my Princeton Reverb does (for me). Maybe if I had changed the speaker ?

The PR just has a bigger sound (not much bigger, just more open) Small cabinet of the SC may have something to do with that. Neither had the sound of a Deluxe. The Concert is way bigger sounding than any of those. And way more pleasing (to me) than a Twin. It's geared toward less clean. I've had 3 Twins. All gone - didn't bend with me, too clean!

**Jimmy Mack** · 07-31-2015, 10:50 PM

WITH MY CONCERT, with 2 -10's, it can be too much for smaller rooms. I have played gigs with one speaker unplugged, and the volume was fine. One sound guy said it didn't need miking, it was loud enough.

**wildschwein** · 07-31-2015, 11:04 PM

The Woody Super Champs with the 10" EVs are the ones to get:

**Jazzman301** · 08-01-2015, 12:07 AM

I'd really be sold on it if I could put in a 12" speaker like warehouse sound G12C/S.

I think the handwired aspect is whats putting it in the mix currently. Seems like I could more easily mod a DRRI with a new speaker and soften up the high end.

I am really torn. I know what I want but frankly don't want to shell out $1900 for a new handwired job. In truth the boss(you know who she is) is not ok with that kind of investment into whats barely more than a paid hobby.

DRRI? Is that the way? Is one of the Fender Rivera Amps? A newer Rivera like a jazz suprema(with a 6V6 or 6L6 tube swap for the EL34s)?

The Rivera Concert seems way bigger than I'll need or be able to use. 60%+ of my gigs are at what I would call living room volumes.

Help me Obi Won Kenobi

'Moe

**Stringswinger** · 08-01-2015, 02:57 AM

I had a Rivera Era Concert with 2 10's back in the 80's. I found it a bit too bright and a bit too heavy. Looking back, If I had changed the speakers, I probably could have cured the brightness, but the weight was still there. And the overdrive/distortion channel was way less pleasing than a comparable Mesa Mark amp of the day.

A silverface Deluxe Reverb is a way better amp IMO.

YMMV

**AlainJazz** · 08-01-2015, 07:10 AM

Totally agree. I also have a silverface deluxe. In my opinion, there's no comparison between the two. The deluxe is much more dynamic and pleasing.

**Jimmy Mack** · 08-02-2015, 10:26 PM

Since we are bringing the scale downwards, a Princeton Reverb might also be the thing to check out as well. Lighter and less expensive than a Deluxe Reverb. To the OP, we don't know how much volume you really need, but the Deluxe may be too much still. If you are talking about the "sweet spot", a Deluxe can be LOUD. My Princeton Reverb with the efficient Eminence speaker is too loud at times, and that's when playing with medium volume drummers. Great tone and spectacular reverb.

Sounds like you need to do some shopping with your preferred guitar in hand. And sights on the budget.

Happy hunting, I really liked the new Fenders I have played, the '68 Custom PR and Vibrolux R.

**Little Jay** · 08-03-2015, 02:32 AM

I recently played a Champ 12 (red knob series) and was very impressed with the clean sound and the volume that came out of this little amp. This one does have a 12" speaker! I'm going to hunt down one of those!

**rhoadsscholar** · 08-03-2015, 10:12 PM

Made a custom head cabinet out of a concert and a 2 x 10 cabinet to go with it. I have two Rajun Cajun's in the cabinet and it covers a lot of ground. Used concerts are a bargain from Guitar Center 30 day return policy, I think there is one right now for $549 so it takes some of the risk out. Don't get me wrong, I would snag a superchamp but only because I already have a concert.... The superchamps tend to be a couple hundred more than their concert counterparts....

Happy hunting. You are looking at the right amp. Also have a 70's era princeton reverb but they are more expensive then the concerts....

**Longways to Go** · 08-03-2015, 11:02 PM

Originally Posted by Little Jay

I recently played a Champ 12 (red knob series) and was very impressed with the clean sound and the volume that came out of this little amp. This one does have a 12" speaker! I'm going to hunt down one of those!

my first "real amp" was a Fender red knob Super 60 -- what a beast! I should have bought the smaller champ model. . . loved the sound . . hated the weight . . . wouldn't mind if it was still around but oh well . . . I was young

**Jazzman301** · 08-03-2015, 11:21 PM

Thanks Rhoads. Whats the size on the Concert 1x12? Is she big and heavy? Will it sound good at lower volumes(living room small venue volumes)?

Any clips/video of you playing the concert in a jazz setting?

My concern is that the Concert or Super Champ will be to...bright/chimey(for lack of better terms). I don't want that bright chimey Tim Lerch/Ted Greene sound(though I LOVE their playing) but Pat Martino is WAAY to dark for me.

I really dig the Wes sound, Tal Farlow has a wonderful tone as well, I also really dig the Bucky Pizzarelli tone.

Kind of been looking at the 1x15 Jazz Suprema as well as the 1x15 JZ amp from Michael at Sound Island music.

As for the PRRI I am just not sure that will have enough clean head room for MOST of my uses. I also would prefer a 12" speaker over a 10".

Thanks everyone for your input and information.

'Moe

**Greentone** · 09-14-2015, 02:24 PM

Say, Little Jay, I used to gig with a Champ 12. It was a terrific small Fender amp. Wish I still had it. I would have been inclined to call it a "Champ-ish 12" if I were Fender. It has a three-tube complement, like the Champ, but they are two 12ax7 preamp/phase inverter tubes, and a 6l6 power tube. This is different than the one 12ax7, one 6v6, one 5y3gt rectifier in the Champ. The Champ featured tube power rectification; the 12 features solid-state rectification--stiffer and providing _more_ power to the 6L6. The 6L6 is about 50% more powerful than the 6V6 tube, too.

But, the main difference is in the preamp section. The 12 has two cascading power stages, providing more crunch than the old Champ, as well as diode-based distortion boost, a la boost pedals. It also has a reverb circuit. The 12 is just a whole lot more small amp than the dead simple Champ.

Both amps are great. For pure tone and pure "brown" distortion signature, you might not be able to beat an old, tweed Champ...ever. Still, for an essentially modern, all-around useful small amp for home and gigging use, the Champ 12 is a zinger.

Among the Rivera Super Champs, I wholeheartedly agree that the ones that came with the 10" EV SRO speaker is THE amp to track down. What an amp/what a speaker/what a combination.

**Spook410** · 09-14-2015, 05:01 PM

When I replaced the stock Fender speaker in my '81 Concert, it was like a completely different amp. These things were made for a Electrovoice 12". Of course, I don't have much use for distortion and am just looking for a warm electric archtop sound.