Nylon Strings On An Archtop

[swingtoneman]

Anybody use nylon strings on an archtop? That is a conventional braced archtop, not with a classical braced top. Did it work for for you? The reason I ask is my archtop is a 'Loar', a very bright / loud sounding instrument. If it worked OK I would have to change the tailpiece to accommodate nylon strings--do you know who makes such a tailpiece?

[Tal_175]

Why would you need a new tail pieace? I would just tie a knot or use a bead. The low mass and tension of the nylon strings won't drive the top like steel strings. It will sound alright but not as good as with steel strings.

[gitman]

This will in all probability "work" in regards to being playable BUT the tone will most certainly be very disappointing : the archtop guitar is built for steel strings, which exert a lot of pressure on the bridge/top and on the neck so it's built to withstand this. When strung with even high tension nylon strings the pressure these strings exert on the top and the neck will still be much less and henceforth the string's energy will not suffice to drive the top in a sufficient manner, i.e. it will result in a weak and lifeless
sound. You'll have much better success with using flatwound strings or the MONEL kind which also are supposed to have a more mellow tone.
In general, an archtop guitar is meant to produce a rather cutting and loud tone in order to be heard above the din of a rhythm section. It was NOT primarily meant as a solo instrument in intimate chamber-music like settings, plucked lightly and strung with light strings. There are guitars that are much better suited for that kind of tonal requirement.
As per the tailpiece : you should be able to use the existing unit on your guitar - the strings are long enough so that you can loop them through the holes and tie them up securely. Expect to adjust the action (higher !) and the bridge placement (for compensation).

[swingtoneman]

The reason for perhaps the change to nylon strings is that my Loar is so loud and and bright I thought nylon strings would tone the sound down...maybe worth a try? I do know that to get the sound from an archtop you have to 'drive' the sound--at least a .054 gauge E is required.

Another issue: Would the tuners of an archtop take nylon strings? Some archtops are made for nylon strings. Would the top bracing of an archtop have a classical guitar bracing for nylon strings?

Your thoughts?

[Tricky Fish]

I suggest that you experiment; no harm in trying. I’d like to hear the results.

Keep in mind that there are a number of luthiers offering nylon string archtop guitars:

https://www.nylonstringjazzguitar.com/
NYLON STRING ARCHTOP – Grimes Guitars
https://hahl-guitars.de/en/guitars/a...-nylon-string/

Disclaimer: I play flattop nylon strung guitars (classical and flamenco). I’m not really a jazz player, but i dabble in chord-melody.

[swingtoneman]

Thanks gitman for your reply. I read your post after I posted mine--above.

[swingtoneman]

Hi Tricky Fish

Yes--I will experiment--worth a try, and post my thoughts.

[rabbit]

Thomastik-Infeld Nylon/Silverplated Copper Flat Wound Light Rope Core, .016 - .039, KR116

One-of-a-kind strings; i think Pearse markets something similar, probably T-I in origin.

These are ball-end.

i have used them on pretty much all kinds of guitars, always looking for something easy on my bad hands.

Have them on a few right now.

Am not as capable or as serious a player as most here, so take all this with salt.

Magnetic pickups will read these but adjustable polepieces are best.

Not really 'nylon' or conventional but you might find a use for them.

Best of luck!

[iim7V7IM7]

A couple thoughts:

• The available energy in a set of nylon strings is far less than a set of bronze or nickel strings.
• The thickess of of the top of classical guitar is typically about 2 mm, a string string flat top about 3 mm and most archtops are 5-6 mm. So the mass that needs to move is far greater.
• Nylon stringed guitars are lightly braced (fan or lattice) compared either x-braced steel stringed flat tops and arched top/parallel or x-braced archtops.
• Now add to this, the way nylon string and steel string flat top’s bridge/saddle rock a top is different than the up/down motion of an archtop bridge.

Luthier Al Carruth made a nylon string archtop a few years back (Carribean Mahogany Classical). Can it be done? Sure, but you’re fighting physics (which is hard to do!)

My $.02

[WilliamScott]

Thomastik-Infeld Nylon/Silverplated Copper Flat Wound Light Rope Core, .016 - .039, KR116

One-of-a-kind strings; i think Pearse markets something similar, probably T-I in origin.

These are ball-end.

i have used them on pretty much all kinds of guitars, always looking for something easy on my bad hands.

Have them on a few right now.

Am not as capable or as serious a player as most here, so take all this with salt.

Magnetic pickups will read these but adjustable polepieces are best.

Not really 'nylon' or conventional but you might find a use for them.

Best of luck!

I was going to suggest these, too. I haven't tried them on an archtop but they might be what you are hoping for. The Pearse version are shorter. Didn't fit on my long scale guitar.

[rlrhett]

Yes, to add my experience as a builder I can say that nylon strings give MUCH less energy to the top. I have built archtop nylon string guitars, but only when I developed my Carbon Fiber tops. No way a spruce top would have worked. My CF soundboard is about 1/3 the mass of a carved spruce top.

I’ve posted this before in another thread, but here is me playing nylon strings on my archtop:

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[Doug B]

The reason for perhaps the change to nylon strings is that my Loar is so loud and and bright I thought nylon strings would tone the sound down...maybe worth a try? I do know that to get the sound from an archtop you have to 'drive' the sound--at least a .054 gauge E is required.

Another issue: Would the tuners of an archtop take nylon strings? Some archtops are made for nylon strings. Would the top bracing of an archtop have a classical guitar bracing for nylon strings?

Your thoughts?

Is your guitar an acoustic archtop or electric archtop? If electric, I doubt that the pickup would work with nylon strings-unless it's a piezo.

[sgosnell]

Why hesitate? All you have to lose is the price of a set of nylon strings. You certainly won't harm the Loar with them.

[icr]

I have on of those not-so-common Ovation Classical guitars. Mine is from 1978. I play it more like an archtop, with a pick. Here is an example, recorded via its sub-saddle piezo pickup :

[coolvinny]

I did try it once on my McKerrihan 15" x 3.75" cedar topped archtop. On paper that guitar seemed like a good candidate, especially since I'd tracked down a photo of an almost identical guitar that McKerrihan had built as a nylon-string...but bottom line is that it was a fail. I think nylon strings just didn't have enough tension to get the wood moving. I went back to my "normal" strings (can't recall if that was bronze or nickel at the time) almost immediately.

[swingtoneman]

Thanks everybody for all your very useful knowledge--much appreciated.

swingtoneman

[gitman]

Since the nylonstrings are quite a bit thicker in diameter than most steelstrings you might have some difficulties with the tuner-posts for the lower strings - these strings strech MUCH more than steelstrings and you may need many more windings to get them up to pitch.

As has been said before : go and experiment since you can't loose except ruin a set of strings.

[darkwaters]

As long as it's affordable, I would just get a good nylon string guitar. I have a Taylor 12-N and jazz sounds great on it with a pick. If you need to amplify it, there are plenty of great nylon string guitars out there with excellent built in sound systems. Trying to turn an archtop into a nylon string sounds like a huge rabbit hole. Just my $0.02.