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Say one has a 110 powered Buscarino Chameleon speaker. This speaker has on board class D power amps.
So a preamp is needed to use it for solid carved archtop.
The goal is hifi, accurate, realistic reproduction of the guitar's acoustic sound. Nothing else, as if we put a high quality mic on it and put it thru a good front end and studio monitor. That is the only tone goal here.
So with that said, what preamps would you consider?
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04-12-2020 11:43 AM
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Would it not depend on the type of pickup you are using?
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Headway preamp?
Originally Posted by wengr
Maybe a small Mackie mixer?
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Oh hang you don’t have a microphone? You are using a magnetic pickup?
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Right, not enough information is available. Are you using a magnetic pick up, a piezo pick up, a microphone or what? And are you wanting a rack mounted studio preamp, a small pedal usable for gigs, etc.?
With magnetic pickups, I had pretty good results with two options going into a powered speaker (an Alto 1x10). One of those was the LR Baggs Para Acoustic DI (sometimes paired with an ART mini mic preamp); the other one was a Zoom MS100BT multifunction pedal which could provide preamp/amp modeling, EQ, speaker simulation, reverb, etc. The output was high enough that it could go straight to a powered speaker expecting line rather than instrument levels and drive it effectively. I also used a SansAmp DI but never found a tone with that that I liked, although other people seem to have had very good experiences with them. For gigs I usually used the Zoom as it required only one stomp box and was very quick and easy to set up.
Our Dutch correspondent has posted a number of videos where he only used an ART preamp going straight into his digital interface into his computer and sounded fabulous. It might be worth trying one of those and going straight to the speaker from that, which gives up EQ as an option but from those videos it may not be needed. I should try that into my powered speaker!
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The ART is great, but you won’t get an acoustic sound per se. More electric archtop. Bloody great though, I have one. Very inexpensive.
So I think - what you want is the sound of an acoustic archtop as if it were miked ? But using some sort of pickup?
Best option is some sort of piezo pickup and AudioSprockets Tonedexter.
You will also need a condensor mic to train it on. This is not so cheap.
Magnetic pup? Prob not possible. (The DeArmond isn’t being used in the video)
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Actually the Para DI does make things sound more acoustic, good point. I must try that with my Krivo pickup at some point. The Krivo Micro Manouche is about as acoustic as it gets with magnetic pickups.
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Grace Designs Alix
Designed for guitar in features and format by a high end studio gear maker. Very well thought out and very well made. A classic example of 'expensive but worth it'.
Thing is, how are you going to capture the sound of your archtop for hifi reproduction? I run through Schertler and Acus hifi gear. I've done piezo, K&K archtop, K&K Definity, and Sunrise. Typically use the Sunrise for acoustic archtop sound because it's pretty good, pretty easy, and offers a lot of flexibility. But requires something like an oval hole model to mount it.
If you do go the piezo/ToneDexter route, the ToneDexter is a decent enough preamp.Last edited by Spook410; 04-12-2020 at 04:00 PM.
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I might recommend the fishman platinum pro eq here. Can boost the signal, shape it as needed and provide other handy services.
Failing that, maybe a straight Di box? I use my recording preamps for this, but I have a telefunken one that works, too. Neve, country man, radial... There's a lot out there, depending on the powering and connectivity you need.
What kind of guitar and what kind of pickup are we talking here?
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DTAR SOLSTICE would be amazing if you can put your hands on one
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Thanks to all for the replies. I did not list specifics pickup info because it will vary, and I am open to suggestion. Obviously using the magnetic pup that's already there would be easiest and preferred, but I know the results will be quite limited.
I also have a DPA 4099 G that I can attach to the guitar. It's a total pia, but definitely will provide the tone I'm after.
I'm also not adverse to contact pickups, but ime they have always disappointed.
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Yes exactly. Originally Posted by christianm77
Interesting. I am aware of the tonedexter from my flat top playing but failed to consider it for this application so thanks. Originally Posted by christianm77
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Using the DPA with a cello mount on the tailpiece is less of a pia in my experience. Any decent mic preamp should work. The ART is inexpensive and widely available. Originally Posted by wengr
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I actually have a Solstice that I used to use for Flat tops. It certainly has a great feature set, but I wonder if the eq points would be ideal for flats on archtops. Originally Posted by Shay
If the answer is yes, then that's it.
If the answer is no, then what I'm looking for is a Solstice type device voiced with Archtop in mind. (hopefully in a different form factor because imo the Solstice form factor sucks).
I would simply try it, however I don't actually have the Chameleon and it's a pricey piece to have to do a buy and try.
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that's why i'd recommend something with parametric eq if you're going that route. in my experience, flat tops and arch tops want to be eq'ed in different places. on the plus side, you don't have to be that picky because you probably only want to cut, not boost anything. almost anything halfway decent can cut, even digital pedals. but if you already have something, give it a shot. off the top of my head, i'm not aware of any eq or preamp type deal that's specifically voiced for archtops (which could mean a lot of things).
tonedexter is only an option if you are using an undersaddle or contact pickup. anything else is a no go. and in my limited experience with my archtop/floater going into a fishman aura (similar, but different) it wasn't exactly a love connection. the concept might be worth investigating, and the potential results can be great, but you're going to have to work for it. and that's a decent cost of entry to buy both the unit and an appropriate pickup.
if you happen to have a daw or recording setup, maybe track something and eq it to your heart's content, then note the values and compare those to the products you're looking at. most manuals will post the actual values being effected by the knobs.
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I have a Buscarino Chameleon 1x8 powered cabinet and I have used three different tube preamps. A Sarno V8 Octal Tube... the highest quality components and most transparent and pure sounding. A Presonus Studio Channel... parametric eq... full compression array in a rack format. And an ART Tube Preamp MP/C... no eq but smooth compressor (<$100 used). I’ve retained the ART because it’s simple and sounds full and warm into the Chameleon. Also, that cab needs an XLR in...
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Very interesting - Thank You. Originally Posted by pcjazz
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So if a High fidelity tone is what your after than I would imagine an acoustic preamp or vocal preamp would be the answer. And it could be something inexpensive to outrageous money depending on budget and personal taste.
But if you are using a floating pickup or built-in Humbucking pickup etc. Than I would think any number guitar preamp such as Ethos, Blackbird, Quilter, Mesa Boogie, etc. Depending again on $$ and personal preferences.
Jack Zucker has sure done a lot of experiments with different gear. Maybe PM him for some suggestions.
Best of Luck?
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Totally “off the wall” idea - to be shot down in flames if appropriate. For a good acoustic sound on my Martin flat-top I used a K&K Trinity system. Three transducers under the bridge, a gooseneck microphone inside the guitar, plus a good preamp with 3 eq bands. I can use transducers, gooseneck or both and mix the amount of each from the preamp. I imagine a Tonedexter would add even more flexibility.
If the archtop has a built-in humbucker it “may” be possible to install a trinity system via the pickup cutout - it looks feasible, but challenging, on my 175.....
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An electric guitar magnetic pickup is pretty far from high fidelity.
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FELiX Acoustic Instrument and Mic Preamp - Grace Design
ALiX - Grace Design
BiX - Grace Design No Mic input.
Check them out.Last edited by Jabberwocky; 04-13-2020 at 09:15 AM.
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I don’t think you are going to get an acoustic sound from a floating pup.
DPA is best, but if you use it live it can be feedbacky
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You are looking for a relatively uncoloured capture of your acoustic archtop guitar. But it may as well be a voice, horn, woodwind or a fart. There are no guitaristic solutions but general ones for the dpa 4099 feeding the input of the active Chæmeleon. I am glad you raised this question because I have been looking for one myself. This jogged my increasingly foggy memories.
A compressor before the preamp may just do wonders for the acoustic signal. So many to choose from.
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Grace Design Offers Free Gifts With m108, Felix, And More
Not shilling these guys but they are throwing in a free bag with the Felix or Alix. Are there better deals elsewhere?
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The Felix is great when you need 2 channels but it's large and heavy on a board. Been wanting to add an Alix for awhile. Never seen anything below list. Don't see them used very often. Getting a bag is probably as good as it gets. Originally Posted by Jabberwocky
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