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Thanks Lawson! Are you using Vint or FullQ on the TB202 in this clip?
As a very satisfied TB user this cured my curiosity and my budding GAS about the ToneMasters.
The TB in the 12" BlockDock makes for a very convenient package. Smaller in 2 dimensions than Deluxe with headroom of Twin. I also own the HD 12" extension cab, so I've got the double 12 speaker thing covered if I want it. That's actually a very cool thing: the combo of closed and open back. These 2 cabs do sound different even though it's the same speaker.
ToneMaster does indeed sound great! At this point maybe it's really cork-sniffing as far as tone, and more about player feel. Player feel also includes appearance in my book :)
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03-07-2020 02:15 PM
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Using the Vintage EQ setting to compare with the Fender. The picture in the clip is actually the settings I used. I actually do think someone with the TB202 and a good cab would not need the Tone Master except that I get very confused about doing direct-out with the Quilter. Quilter has this habit of dual-purpose outputs that puts me in a bind--line out our headphone... but I want to monitor from the amp... cab sim on the XLR? Silent direct recording? Cab sim for silent DI recording? The quilter can do a lot, but the various combinations of controls is confusing to me. The Tone Master is idiot-proof, one of the nice things about their hewing to the original amp layout with only very selective adding of features.
Originally Posted by ccroft
Thanks Lawson! Are you using Vint or FullQ on the TB202 in this clip?
As a very satisfied TB user this cured my curiosity and my budding GAS about the ToneMasters.
The TB in the 12" BlockDock makes for a very convenient package. Smaller in 2 dimensions than Deluxe with headroom of Twin. I also own the HD 12" extension cab, so I've got the double 12 speaker thing covered if I want it. That's actually a very cool thing: the combo of closed and open back. These 2 cabs do sound different even though it's the same speaker.
ToneMaster does indeed sound great! At this point maybe it's really cork-sniffing as far as tone, and more about player feel. Player feel also includes appearance in my book
The TB202+Good Cab will cost about what the Fender Tone Master would cost, so I don't see why someone with the TB202 would "need" the TM (though I have both but I'm a very sick puppy).
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Prices for the amp and cabs are readily available online. I bought the TB202 used. The Quilter and a good cabinet will run about what a Tone Master amp would cost. Originally Posted by Wildcat
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Here is a side-by-side of the Fender TMTR and the Fender PRRI. My Princeton is the "Sweetwater" Limited Edition with tweed cover and 12" Cannabis Rex speaker. I left the microphone input level on the A/D box the same as the other two and adjusted the Princeton's volume level until it was about the same (I hope) as the other tracks I've done. So this comparison is between a tube-modeling amp and a tube amp, admittedly, of course, of a different type. Actually I think the Princeton comes out pretty distinctively in this, and I still give the Princeton a bit of an edge. It has a presence that I personally like a lot. I don't know if it's the tubes, or the unique Princeton tone. Both still in the ball park of "WOW" for me.
And with this I conclude my side-by-side takes on these amps. I hope this helps any who are thinking about buying. It's a ton of money to commit, and so having the best information from the type of music you play seems to me to be most helpful.
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Might be that one of the biggest diffs with the Princeton is going to be that C-Rex VS Neodynium Jensen speaker in the twin. I put the C-Rex in a Mesa for bit more of that exact sound. Warmth.
I thought the XLR out you used on an earlier clip really worked well with TB. Sounded perfect to me.
Note to others : he's running the Quilter totally flat for bass,mid and treb, with a voicing that is meant to simulate blackface scoop. So there's a ton of adjustment that could be done to Lawson's TBlock sound if someone was so inclined. It has another voice called FullQ, which is what I prefer. Tim Lerch has a demo of that.
You have a very nice stable of amps Lawson. Thanks for sharing. It's hard to find decent demos of the guitars we all love thru these amps. And even harder to find side by side.
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Hey thanks for the kind words. I probably ought to go ahead and through the Polytone into the mix, but I'm kinda burned out on making these for the moment! Originally Posted by ccroft
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Lawson, my brother, you ain't done yet.... not by a long shot! We need to hear Twin thru C-Rex VS Quilter thru C-Rex VS your Princeton, then Twin thru Quilter cab VS Princeton thru Quilter cab VS Quilter thru Quilter cab. And Quilter thru Twin cab VS Princeton thru Twin cab cab VS Twin thru Twin cab. And after all that you really must put the Polytone thru the paces.
I know it's a lot to ask, but maybe.... just maybe after all that we could all finally and forever agree on the best amp for 'jazz'. What a day that would be!!
Please just forget about ever playing Donna Lee at tempo. The answer to the never ending quest for the ultimate amp for 'jazz' and the worldwide peace this knowledge would engender is far more important than that, is it not?
:) :( :{ :=) etc.
(but... what about the Blue... and the Mambo... and all the other un-named things that may or may not run on light bulbs....)
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cccroft i was just formulating a similar response to Lawson and very self amused and laughing at my own thought when i read yours even better!!
Sorry Lawson lol
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Thanks Lawson for making that video!
That's exactly what I needed to hear. I'm on the fence between the TM Deluxe Reverb and the Quilter TB 202.
I know you're using the Twin but it gives me a much better idea of how the Quilter sounds. I've used many Fender Twins so that's a great benchmark to compare an amp to.
I'm having a solid pine cabinet made for a 60's JBL D130. I'm thinking the Quilter will be ideal for that. I also really want the TM Deluxe Reverb as it has that classic "Fender" sound but in a super light-weight package... and to my ears sounded better than the 'real' '65 Deluxe Reissue sitting next to it.
Sounds like I need both...
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Played through a TMDR last week at a local music store. I had my Quilter Mach 2 in the trunk of my car so I was able to do a side by side comparison. Not sure what it was but the Fender did not measure up to me. I was sure I was going to love it and have to deal with the pain and agony of wanting another amp. No such luck. I guess we all hear something a bit different.
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So here is my tired old Donna Lee project recorded with the TMTR and the TB202 using each amp's Direct Line recording option. For the TB202 you have two options, XLR out the back that I still don't fully understand, they say it's somehow linked to the speaker feed and response so you can't use it for silent recording. I gotta study that. But the Signal Out on the front seems to be the norm for direct recording and is what I used.
On this particular recording I actually think the Quilter sounds best, but "live" in the room they both sounded fantastic. So I think I need to tweak the Fender signal, which doesn't sound like what I expected.
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I wonder if they have the same power amplifier and the output wattage difference is because the TMDR seeing one speaker at 8 ohms and the TMTR sees two speakers in parallel at 4 ohms. Originally Posted by Wildcat
This would imply that if you wanted more volume with the TMDR, you could add a external speaker jack (or get someone competent to -- I know I would have to
) to run a second cab in parallel.
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Holy crap! Just fantastic. Originally Posted by lawson-stone
This video is the thing I'm ALWAYS talking about with the myth of linear progress. Just an excellent example of something "popping into place" ... all at once , as opposed to gradual, linear, progress. Something has CLICKED in your time feel very recently, if not this actual video (I may have missed one previous). All of the slurs, shifts , grace notes etc., even "wrong" or late rhythms etc. are well-defined in a subdivision of the beat, which gives the overall effect of them being "phrasing" as opposed to "wrong" or "out of time". Congrats on a leap in phrasing/feel.
The most extraordinary thing about this event is probably the fact that you have recorded so many videos leading up to this. Very quantifiable and measurable thing. You sound like a different PLAYER from a week or two ago, honestly. Again, congrats. Glad I was here to witness it.
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Well gosh Matt that's just so incredibly kind of you to say. I have felt this week a kind of move toward this making sense. Christian M. suggested patting on 1/3 which I started doing in practice, and that isolated a couple places where I am murky on the time. I divide mistakes into "clams" and "train wrecks." The former are missed notes and such, but don't derail the tune. The latter are, well, free of needing definition. Originally Posted by matt.guitarteacher
This project has done amazing stuff for my feel of the fingerboard. I take it on faith that Bird was a fantastic player and what he did was not just right but canonical, and every time I play this I have a deeper feeling of appreciation for his genius. This solo is worth analyzing measure for measure.
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Just a guess, but the xlr out might be for sending the signal to the mixing board in a live setting (while using the amp itself for the stage sound). Originally Posted by lawson-stone
The Quilter sounded (a lot) louder and more reverby to me. Maybe if you get the levels closer and take some reverb off the Quilter you'll have a better comparison.
John
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HEre's another piece, Jimmy Raney's solo from Aebersold Vol 20 based on "Just Friends." Played through the Quilter TB202 using the "Sig Out" to the A/D box. Playing the Epiphone ES175 Premium because it's just a really fun guitar to play!
I really do think direct line recording from amps has come a long, long way.
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And here's the same solo played through the Fender Tone Master Twin Reverb. I have the "Bright" switch on, so this is a little... bright.
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I've finally pulled the pin and ordered a TM Deluxe Reverb
hoping it arrives this week although there will probably be delays with the coronavirus situation.
nearly all my gigs have been cancelled now so there's plenty of time to woodshed with a nice new amp!
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You're gonna love that amp.
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This is my 2015 Gibson L5ces played through the Quilter Tone Block 202, but I'm using my Yamaha G100-210 as a speaker cabinet to see how the dual 10" speakers sound. I hung the Shure SM57 mic in front of the speaker. Funny, but after so many years of obsessing over booms and mic stands to get the microphone exactly in the right spot, I find that just hanging it in front of the speaker works just fine.
The tune is my "project" for the week: "Like Someone in Love" using Jimmy Raney's solo from Vol. 20 of the Aebersold Play-Along set.
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I've been doing something similar, using my Fender Vibrolux Reverb as a cabinet for my GK MB-200. It works well for that, I think. The two 10" speakers give a fuller sound than a single speaker in a closed cabinet. Not very portable, but it sounds good.
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Definitely my Yamaha G100-210 is not portable. It's pretty much in the class of a Twin Reverb. Originally Posted by sgosnell
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Originally Posted by lawson-stone
Thanks LS for tipping me off to a great Van Heusen/Burke song!
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@ Lawson Stone,
Great clips and very informative. Thank you so much.
I am highly interested in one of those amps. I play in a couple of LOUD bigbands. My first interest is in the amp that stays longer clean.
In your opinion, which of the amps would you say is breaking up earlier - volumewise - ?
best regards
Ruud van Kampen
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I have since acquired the Fender Tone Master Twin Reverb, and if you want clean headroom with high output, this is the amp to have. The Tone Master is light, but the Twin Reverb identity and performance is still there. Originally Posted by hotpepper01
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