Current SS Amps vs High End Tube Amps

[Mecena]

I don't know for you guys.
But every cab with 1 speaker sounds boxy to me, no matter how big speaker and cab is.
Everything with 1 speaker is boxy to my ears.
Even stuff like Marshall JCM 900 wide combos and stuff like that.
Practically JCM900, in like Fender Twin Reverb sized combo.
It did sound pretty boxy to me.
So I'm not that worried about stuff like 8" vs 10" vs 12" .....
Friend had like JCM900, it did sound pretty boxy, even if it had 12" speaker and Fender Twin Reverb wide cab alike .....

Or he did had like JCM 900 head, and some other wide Marshall combo with V30 in it.
But he connected head on that speaker also. Same as combo amp.
Boxy in both way.
It was pretty wide amp, like those Fender wide combos.

[Tal_175]

Boxy to me means lacking lows and with too much mids. Like the AM radio sound. Every cab can be made to sound boxy with some EQ adjustment. But I find it's easy to get not boxy sounds out of most 10 inch+ speakers with cabs large enough to house them.

[Mecena]

I can hear difference between like:
1x12 , and diagonal 2x12.
But 1x12 of any size, or 1x10 is to me like speaker problem, not construction. xD
So I pretty much don't care about 1x12 vs 1x10 vs 1x8.
I'm fine with all 3 ...

Lowest option if you ask me, which would not sound boxy.
2x10 in diagonal.

Also ....

Boxyness was more noticable on overdrive channel.
On clean to me it didn't matter.

For some reason, clean was super super cool.
And okey. It did sound pretty okey.
But overdrive was a lot more limited .....
On overdrive was a lot more noticable stuff like that.

On a blind test, I bet I would never hear a difference between:
1x10 in DV Mark Little Jazz alike box.
And 1x12 , Fender Twin Reverb alike box.

I'm 95% sure that in this comparation, I would not hear a difference on clean channel with any amp.

[Alter]

A single 10' speaker will usually have less bass, although a bigger cabinet helps. Also the volume at which you use an amp makes a big difference, as bass frequencies are greatly subdued the lower the volume gets. A great way to get bass with a small speaker is to use a closed back, ported cabinet. I have a cab like that with an Eminence Beta 10a that sounds great and weights next to nothing (it's a clone of the first henriksen 10' cabs). But of course you'll never get a 10 to sound like a 12, or 2x12s, so it's a matter of taste (and carrying..)

I haven't tried changing the preamp tubes on the Princeton, as I think the overall volume stays the same, you just have to put the volume a bit higher to have the same result. I usually just have the volume on 5. If I put a 12AY7 it would be cleaner, but quieter too, and to reach the same volume, you'd have to go say to 7, at which point you'd sound the same. I could be wrong though as I haven't tried that.

[Mecena]

The only problem which I have with like 8" speaker.
It kinda does sound "high pitch farty" and "fizzy" on OD. Only on OD.
But clean is usable to me.
I have my own priorities with cabs.
That is smaller weight and smaller dimensions.
Other than that I don't care.
Since I play on clean only, it won't matter. I super rarely use OD.

[pingu]

Re two speaker mono ....

i cannot explain it but I noticed that

i was working in broadcast Audio when Stereo came in
(Yes I'm that old)
and we equipt our control rooms with two speaker setups
of the same type as we previously had with our mono setups

i noticed that when working in two speaker mono
that everything sounded better and more natural
and real ,than with one speaker mono

I've often wondered why
(i guess the disspertion is more even in the room or something)

i would imagine two speakers for guitar would also
sound better than one , everything else being equal ....
and indeed this appears to be the case generally

(I however only use one speaker ,
because that's all I want to shlep around)

[ruger9]

I haven't tried changing the preamp tubes on the Princeton, as I think the overall volume stays the same, you just have to put the volume a bit higher to have the same result. I usually just have the volume on 5. If I put a 12AY7 it would be cleaner, but quieter too, and to reach the same volume, you'd have to go say to 7, at which point you'd sound the same. I could be wrong though as I haven't tried that.

This is exactly what happens, I did it.

[Zina]

A great way to get bass with a small speaker is to use a closed back, ported cabinet.

Is a bassport just a hole in the cabinet, or is there some sort of funnel on the inside?

[rpjazzguitar]

Is a bassport just a hole in the cabinet, or is there some sort of funnel on the inside?

I think a ported cabinet is defined as having a hole in it and a tube leading to the hole inside the box.

If there's no tube, I'm not sure what the technical term is. The tube helps focus low frequencies from the back of the speaker.

[Alter]

It's a tube, but the cabinet has specific construction and geometry, and usually takes specific kinds of speakers. The most well known one has been the mesa boogie for ages, but there are new ones like the henriksens that are popular too. I think they are your best bet if you want bass without carrying a big cabinet.

[Zina]

Oh I see, thank you.

[rpjazzguitar]

I recall seeing a speaker design manual decades ago. Bass reflex speaker design book. It had nomographs (a kind of chart) used to figure out the size of the box, the hole and the length of the tube (port). You needed the "free air resonance" figure for the speaker. The idea is more bass, smaller box.

[Danny W.]

I recall seeing a speaker design manual decades ago. Bass reflex speaker design book. It had nomographs (a kind of chart) used to figure out the size of the box, the hole and the length of the tube (port). You needed the "free air resonance" figure for the speaker. The idea is more bass, smaller box.

See "Thiele/Small Parameters," which make it possible to design ported enclosures scientifically.

Danny W.

[rpjazzguitar]

See "Thiele/Small Parameters," which make it possible to design ported enclosures scientifically.

Danny W.

Thanks!

Couldn't be simpler!

[Smurf43]

Maybe, but I think audiences, especially listening jazz audiences, whether they know anything about the types of amplification employed or not, do hear quality and tone of sound............ I do these things for my own benefit and in faith, really, that their cumulative effect translates through the sound of my playing something that is heard to the benefit of my audience.

Said like a true musician who loves music, it is nice to see that there are some left that appreciate the audience & gives it all for THEIR entertainment.

Bravo!

[JazzNote]

I'm surprised that the Mambo has not come up so far .... IMHO this is the one ss amp which comes closest to tube amps in terms of lively sound in the clean area.

[Alter]

I recall seeing a speaker design manual decades ago. Bass reflex speaker design book. It had nomographs (a kind of chart) used to figure out the size of the box, the hole and the length of the tube (port). You needed the "free air resonance" figure for the speaker. The idea is more bass, smaller box.

It seems to be pretty much standard design in small combo cabinets. Aer, Henriksen use such cabs. They do have unbelievable bass for the small sizes..!

[pingu]

It seems to be pretty much standard design in small combo cabinets. Aer, Henriksen use such cabs. They do have unbelievable bass for the small sizes..!

very common design in Hifi speakers too ....

ports can be other shapes too
eg Little jazz bass port is rectangular ....

Barefaced cabs have an interesting variation on the
idea ....

more Bass ! yeah

[jumpnblues]

Dialogue seems to center mostly around run of the mill mass produced tube amps vs solid state, but as the OP wonders, what about state of the art tube boutique quality amps??? I feel that the highest quality engineered tube amplifier has the finest musical tone available and can't yet be matched by solid state. Not yet.

I have owned a slug of PTP, hand wired, hand made, $2500+, boutique, tube amps, and you're right. The tone with most of them is exemplary. But this tube, boutique, PTP, handwired/made, amp snob has recently seen and heard what a large manufacturer is capable of when it puts it's collective minds together (Grammatically correct?). And it's in the form of the Fender Tone Master series of amps. I knew technology would eventually catch up and this day would come sooner or later. But this line of amps is seriously remarkable. One of Fender's main objectives with the Tone Master line was to design and produce a line of amps that would sonically emulate, as accurately as possible, the sound of vintage black face Fender Deluxe Reverbs and Twin Reverbs...in a SS amp. They were not concerned about emulating the tone of any other amps. Only vintage black face Deluxe and Twin Reverbs. IMHO, they are so close as to be "in the ballpark" with their vintage black face counterparts.
Do they sound exactly like their vintage black face Fender Twin/Deluxe Reverb amp counterparts? No. But neither do many other vintage blackface Fender Twin/Deluxe Reverb amps.

I've owned 3 vintage black face Fender Twin Reverbs and they didn't sound exactly like each other. But the Fender Tone Master Twin Reverb series amp that I currently own is so close to vintage black face Fenders in tone that it might come as close to sounding like some vintage black face Deluxe/Twin Reverbs, as other vintage black face Fenders do themselves (if that sentence makes sense). In other words, if you did a blind comparison of, say, ten vintage black face Fender Twin Reverbs and threw a Tone Master Twin Reverb in the mix, you would have a very difficult time telling which amp was the TMTR. They're that close. It has now become for me...close enough.

And, if that wasn't enough to sway a potential customer, the over all tone of the Tone Master series is superb...even if you don't think the Tone Master series sound like their vintage black face counterparts. It has gorgeous crystal clean headroom. It breaks up nice and smoothly. It takes pedals extremely well. It has a power attenuator...that works. It has mic and cab simulators...that work. And, best of all for most of us, it weighs just 34 lbs. I mean, what's not to like?

Anyway, this life long PTP, hand wired, hand made, tube, boutique amp snob has been won over. There...I said it. And I'm not taking it back. Are there other amps I'd like to have? Oh yeah. A Quilter? Maybe a Victoria or two? But only along with and not instead of a TMTR. As I mentioned in another thread, IMHO, Fender has hit a grand slam with this amp. Although I've read comments to the contrary, I think the Tone Master series is reasonably priced if you consider all the features of these amps. OK...just my 2 cents.

[cosmic gumbo]

I'm just waiting for the 14lb Tone Master 1x10 Princeton Reverb. These TM amps are actually multicore computers with a guitar speaker.

[Boogaloo]

I’m waiting for the tone masters take over the world. More tube amps for me!