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Hi Guys,
A rather controversial post but I feel my question, brought about my desire to alter an old and historically relevant model of guitar, is justifiable considering the particular guitar in question having had a troubled past, if you will
The guitar is (as the title mentions) as 55' Super400 that was once refinished, has gone through two refrets, had some binding come off and put back on, has had a floating pickup installed as well as knobs through the guard etc. and some other slight beatings that make the guitar highly undesirable for anyone looking for something original, let alone a collector, who wouldnt bat an eye at it.
I just thought I would ask:
How big of a project, **how feasible**, and how costly would it be for me to have one of my favorite PAFs installed into the body of the guitar in the neck position in place of the floating pickup. It would then be my dream guitar.. especially if I could have a volume and tone control. Is bracing an issue? or can that be bypassed - i cant seem to find enough on bracing, nor would I be able to know if the kind of bracing used would be problematic for this. I would imagine the super CES's were designed differently to accomodate the humbucker. Im just hoping there is a way as i've seen such things done before to other player grade guitars.
For those who might say, "theres no such thing as your favorite pickup, they all sound different in different guitars" I might mention that ive put this pickup in several guitars, all of which were only significantly enhanced - trust that i'll love it.
Thank you kindly.
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12-19-2019 08:34 AM
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I bought a bargain re-finished and re-fretted and once-cracked L7 as a project to electrify with a hole for a pickup. In the end, even with all those "value degrading" flaws, the guitar was too nice to cut up. So I installed a floating pickup.
Last edited by icr; 12-19-2019 at 03:23 PM.
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I've seen a lot of acoustic archtop guitars w/pickups routed in after the fact. Yes, there's a slightly different bracing pattern on electric carved tops, additional smaller braces running perpendicularly between the tone bars.
Most of the time these acoustic Gibsons are parallel braced 17" wide models which require partially or fully cutting the tone bar braces in that area.
Because of the fact that it's an 18" wide guitar the extra inch might mean the route would miss the braces or at least be a little less invasive. If it was a pre '39 Super there's a chance the route might miss the bracing altogether as they're X braced.
Routing this guitar w all of the minor issues you mention wouldn't be an option for me except the fact you said it's already been refinished. In that case it wouldn't stop me if that's what I really wanted as it's already a player grade instrument at that point.
Are you thinking of drilling for volume and tone controls in the top or using the existing guard mounted knobs? It shouldn't be a really big expense, a route for the pickup, wiring, jack, pots etc.
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Just curious, is it cut or-non-cut? I think the non-cut was discontinued around '55?
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Usually best to leave it original spec, and just find one that suits your needs.
There are plenty of used options including Heritage versions that are more affordable.
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If this is an ACOUSTIC / non-electrified Super400 then the top is carved thinner than on an electric model. You should take that into account when making the decision re the set-in pickup. You should also keep in mind that the big box of this guitar is MUCH more prone to feedback than say an L5 or similar 17" archtop. At moderate volume levels it can truly sound sweet and be super responsive but on stage these are often almost uncontrolable.
The bracing typically ends where you want to make that hole and the top is also quite thick towards the neck block so I don't think this will have a great (negative) effect.
The famed LA Studio crack Tim Pierce recently posted a clip where he plays a similarly modded vintage L5 (converted acoustic model, 2 set-in pickups + 4 pots+switch) and the sounds he gets with that guitar is sweet indeed. However, I'm pretty sure he only uses this in his own studio where he can control all pertinent volume levels. Now let's see what you got there !
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this is not a direct response to the op...who ultimately can do whatever he likes with his possessions...but, i'm always amazed in general by these type of posts...be like if i owned a rothko painting and said, well it needs some restoration so while i'm having it worked on i may change some things...the colors don't really match my couch...so
becomes
imagine!!! why mess with an old gibson archtop..gettin rarer all the time...and so far modded, but not terribly...so many guitars to choose from that could be carved to a players needs..why mess with the classics
good gracious! spare the gibby...restore it..refinished and refretted are not major..floater and guard mounted knobs neither..why cut it?
someday in the future, if it's not been completely destroyed, someone will spend much money trying to restore it back to original!!
cheers
and btw, i was once at a very fashionable madison ave art gallery and heard a woman buy a don van vliet painting on the basis that the colors matched her couch!! haha
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It's my box of paints and I'm a-gonna do what I wanna do with it....
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Meanwhile, meet Toby and take it off his hands.
1948 Gibson Super 400 with added PAF
Why feck up another?
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To have a refinished guitar restored to it's original finish would be quite problematic I'd think and the reference to (antique) works of art is also a bit far-fetched in this situation concerning a player-grade instrument.
Re the OP's stated preference for a set-in pickup I think there is indeed room for alternative solutions, meaning not having to cut a hole into the top. His pickup of choice will sound quite different in this guitar and most definitely he has no way of foreseeing/hearing the outcome, it's pure speculation. A floater can be swapped out without leaving much of a trace whereas a hole in the top will leave permanent marks and would involve much work by an experienced luthier.
Depending on how much space the guitar offers at the end of the fingerboard (neck angle....) between the strings and the top he'd have many types of floaters to choose from....
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the rothko is from 1949!!! not much more "antique" than the guitar! haha
Originally Posted by gitman
like many things its value has increased with age..as will a nice/as close to original 1955 gibson made guitar...
be a good caretaker!!!
cheers
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yeah, I'd never have the stones to cut a hole in the top of an acoustic archtop, but if you're dead set on doing it, best to do it to one that's already been compromised. Originally Posted by neatomic
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except that, at present, the "compromise" is still limited..refinish. refret and non top invasive pup and controls...not that bad so far..but cutting top and into bracing!! yipes!!!
imagine if all the stradivarius owners in this world had done similar in their day!!
honor the guitar!! i learned that from rudy pensa, back in the day!
makes no sense to force the guitar to do something it wasn't designed to do!
cheers
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Now THAT would be something, a Strad w/a PAF! Originally Posted by neatomic
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Happy to sort out a trade with you.
I've been looking for a player S-400.
This one was converted back in @1980, with a Seymour Duncan '59.
It's not a Gibson, but a 1930s John Abbott guitar.
Wide-spaced parallel bracing was not affected when the pickup was installed.
18 1/2" wide. 24 3/4" scale.
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