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Nicely played.
Recordings capture the differences between L5 and ES 175 very well too. It's interesting however, ES 175 with the second microphone sounds closer to L5 than with the first microphone. L5 has more mellow highs, the second microphone also seems to mellow out ES 175 as well. My favorite is 175 with the second microphone then L5 then 175 with the first microphone.
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10-21-2019 04:45 PM
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Much as I love the venerable SM57 I"m thinking I like the IR#2 option, the Ribbon microphone profile, better as well. I should try the L5 with the IR#2 profile.
Originally Posted by Tal_175
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This is one of those things that was fun to do but didn't end with very dramatic results. I have 3 amps here:
Fender Tone Master Twin Reverb
Fender Princeton Reverb Re-issue
1965 Silvertone 1484
This clip uses the same bop blues solo as before, but switches among the 3 amps, naturally without telling which is #1, #2, or #3. All amps were mic'd with a SHure SM57 close to the outer edge of center cone of the speaker.
I have tried to equalize the volume levels so that mere loudness doesn't prejudice your listening, but I don't know how successful I was. Guitars are all panned to the center, the backing track is only on the right, so if you want to hear only the guitar, pan left.
I don't intend this as a test, nor to ask which sounds "best" but just put it out there for your enjoyment and perhaps information.
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Interesting! Having listened to that a couple of times, I think I like number two the best but I wasn't able to hazard a guess as to which was which.
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Lawson - your latest video gives more credence to the idea that tone is in the fingers.... Well done!
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The most dramatic difference, to my ears, between the three was in the very first section. Based on this, here are my guesses:
1 - Tone Master Twin Reverb
2 - Princeton Reverb RI
3 - Silvertone 1484
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For good or ill, it seems like whatever guitar I use, whatever amp, I still sound like me, Originally Posted by citizenk74
Lawson - your latest video gives more credence to the idea that tone is in the fingers.... Well done!
I believe the "fingers" but I also think it's the ear. We tweak the controls and fret over the knobs until we think it's "right" and I think we are unconsciously moving whatever gear we play towards the sound in our heads that we like.
I've started just leaving Tone/Volume on maybe 7-8, amp controls flat or 5'd, and just seeing what comes out. It's interesting!
I have a 1960's Hagstrom-I that is my next "test" clip.
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In person, how much difference or what do you think is the difference between the Tone Master and the Princeton?
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Let me get back to you on that. I LOVE the PRRI. It also has a lot of "clean" and so it sounds a bit Twin Reverbish, but still it's a 6V6 amp and that's a specific sound. I would say at the moment the TMTR sounds smoother, less "look out, I'm about to break up!" whereas the PRRI stays clean but always has this hint (threat?) that it is about to break up. That's just off the top of my head, though. I'll play them today or tomorrow and get a more focused opinion on that. Originally Posted by DMgolf66
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Number 2. But, I have strong feeling that your playing would sound smooth and mellow using any amp. Good luck with the new amp and thanks for posting.
Tony D.
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Lawson, we gotta get some 50s tweed (or modern clone) into your hands!
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Can’t beat 50s tweed! Originally Posted by wzpgsr
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Heard and played a Tone Master Twin today with a 330, I was curious after reading this thread.Very good sounding, perhaps a little on the bright side. It's a swiss knife: it's light, playable at low and high volume without any problem for a large panel of styles (perfect for 80's english pop with the 330). It's not a valve amp but it "emulates" quite well that typical clear Fender sound. The owner paid 1000€, it seems reasonable if you are looking for that "no lumbago /no valve issues" amp.I prefer my homemade tweed Princeton but it's clearly apple vs oranges and I won't ask the twin to sound like something it's not made to sound like.
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So I spent maybe an hour today with the PRRI and the TMTR literally side-by-side with an A-B switch. I got the volumes equal--put the TMTR on the 12 Watt attenuator setting, both volumes on about 6, B/T on about 5, mids on the twin at 5. They are different but it's hard to describe. The Twin has a very round fat kind of clean sound that just seems to breathe. The PRRI is beautiful, but seems to have a bit more edge, maybe little brighter, but it also seemed just a tad more crispy and present. This all could also just be settings. Neither was anything short of heart-melting beautiful to me, playing my Epiphone MiK Broadway to boot! I'd have killed for either sound. Originally Posted by DMgolf66
Then the PRRI had a tube start making a little noise, just a little microphonic. I am sure it's an easy fix, but I was reminded that likely that won't ever happen with the TMTR. Both amps, though, I love dearly. that Princeton has a mojo that is hard to describe. I wish I had more experience with tube amps so I could do it justice. The Twin has it too, but the sound is just bigger all around, even at the same volume.
I doubt that helps you much! Kind of vague, and when I play them again tomorrow, it'll all seem different I guess. But that's my initial impression playing them both side-by-side.
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My Deluxe Reverb started blowing fuses out of the blue. Probably the rectifier tube is dying. I might need to use it at a gig next week. Now I don't know whether to replace the tube or the amp altogether with a TM DR
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Just curious to know how spent much time you have spent playing through a TM DR? Originally Posted by Tal_175
My Deluxe Reverb started blowing fuses out of the blue. Probably the rectifier tube is dying. I might need to use it at a gig next week. Now I don't know whether to replace the tube or the amp altogether with a TM DR
Please understand that I'm not questioning your thinking in any way...it just seems like it must/might be a very tough decision to make.
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Your DR should be an easy fix.
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Yes it is. I'm not completely serious. When something like this happens, it makes you wonder though ...
Last edited by Tal_175; 10-26-2019 at 07:42 PM.
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My Mesa Mark V did the same thing a while back and was exactly the problem. A new rectifier tube and I was back in business. Originally Posted by Tal_175
My Deluxe Reverb started blowing fuses out of the blue. Probably the rectifier tube is dying. I might need to use it at a gig next week. Now I don't know whether to replace the tube or the amp altogether with a TM DR
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This is exactly the same guess I had. Originally Posted by wzpgsr
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Whoa I forgot about posting the "reveals" for each amp.
#1 is the SILVERTONE 1484 played through 2 10" speakers
#2 is the Tone Master Twin Reverb
#3 is the Princeton Reverb Re-Issue Sweetwater special edition (12" CR speaker).
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Yeah, I confirmed that it was the rectifier tube by temporarily replacing the rectifier tube with one from another amp. More often than not a new Fender tube amp will have a bad tube shortly after the warranty expires. I bought 4 new Fender tube amps in my life. 3 of the 4 times there was a tube failure within a year of the purchase. Originally Posted by HCarlH
Last edited by Tal_175; 10-28-2019 at 03:42 PM.
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I continue to A/B my TMTR and my PRRI. Both do sound exquisite. The differences between them can't be set out as better or worse, good or not as good. But I do hear differences. Likely it's the aboriginal 6L6 vs. 6V6 differences. The Twin just has a fatter, rounder sound that strikes me as the tone that the other solid state jazz amps are trying to match. Even the Polytone was trying to sound like a classic tube jazz amp, and the Twin sound really strikes me as the sound that the other amps are trying to match, often in the process of course producing their own wonderful sounds even if they don't duplicate the Twin. Even turned low, even on the 0.5 Watt attenuation, this TMTR just sounds BIG. Not loud, BIG. It's a wave you ride on.
The Princeton is also wonderful, but the tone is not the same fat/round sound. It's rich for sure, but it creates the impression of being brighter, maybe lower in the mids (?). I keep trying to record these two amps in a way that captures what I'm hearing. Since I have a wireless rig, I set the amps up and walk all around the room to listen to them so it isn't just sitting in front of the speakers. The Princeton has a little more brass. I'd almost say it has a more "british" sound than the Twin, but I can't really say for sure because I haven't got much experience with those amps.
I wish I had a better descriptive vocabulary for tone, but so far this is the best I can do.
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I wonder what companies like Quilter and Henriksen are thinking about how the Fender TM's will affect their sales. Henriksen just released a tube preamp version for more tube-like sound. Quilters whole mojo has been Fender in a light package. Not only Fender TM's are more like the real thing but they are cheaper than both Quilter and Henriksen amps. Is this the end of companies like Quilter? Originally Posted by lawson-stone
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Lawson, there will also be a tonal difference due to the lack of a rectifier tube in your new TMTR vs. the rectified Princeton Reverb.
Or have the engineers at Fender figured a way to simulate rectifier 'sag' into their circuitry?
Either way, your favorable review has me seriously wondering if this is my next gigging amp.
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