Setup required with move from Rounds to Flats?

[major minor]

I have an Ibanez AS93FM (Semi Hollow) that I have been playing for a few years. I have had rounds on it always (11's). I'd like to try some flats but I'm not sure I'd need a setup check. I plan to use the same gauge (maybe?).



Can someone advise what to do?

Mark

[339 in june]

Welcome to the forum

Change your strings and play
Just like yesterday

[major minor]

Well, things just got complicated.

I was adjusting the intonation on the high E and I may have left to much tension on it and when I went to put it back in the bridge it went twang.

Note to self..don't do that again.

I noticed that the little slots in the bridge pieces were a little rough. I may shine those up a little. Fine file followed by fine sand paper? just enough to get the plating out of them.

On a related note..half of the bridge pieces are sloped one way and the rest another. There seems to be room to adjust them adequately. Shouldn't the slopes all be facing towards the stop?

I've seen this done all sorts of ways. Is one way better than another. Evidently this was done at the factory for a reason. I am the original owner.

I'd would imagine the string "break point" would be sharper if the slopes were facing the neck of the guitar. Now might be a good time to change it out if I decide to do that.

Thoughts?
Still a newb

Mark

[jads57]

If you are going to Flatwound Strings, try a minimum of 12 to 52 gauge to start with. Adjust your intonation and truss rod accordingly.

[major minor]

Well I just ordered 11's so we will see. I don't do my own adjustment. Maybe its time to learn how.

I looked at the bridge pieces more closely and ain't no way I am able to reverse anything. There are some impossibly small c-clips holding the screws in place.

I did find one of the mounting screws for the tail piece was loose. Very loose. Also the tuners were barely tightened in the peg head. I snugged those up a bit.

I figure this was not a guitar two years ago and the wood may have shrunk a little causing the tuners to become less than tight.

Is there any reason to change the height of the pole pieces with the new strings?

Mark

[sgosnell]

The bridge saddles can go either way. It's only an issue if you run out of adjustment room and the high edge is on the inside. Reversing it can give you just a little more adjustment for intonation. Otherwise I don't worry about it. It's not unusual for TOM saddle slots to be rough, and judicious filing and sanding can take care of that. I don't go crazy, but insuring smooth slots is part of a basic setup. Having burrs in the saddles can cause strings to break, as you may have discovered.

The polepieces should be adjusted to give equal volume across the strings. I adjust them as necessary to get that. Different strings may require some adjustment, or maybe not. The thing that causes adjustment to be necessary is usually changing the string alloy, like from bronze or nickel to steel, or vice versa. Whether they need adjustment is your decision based on your ear.

Archtops vibrate. Obviously. And that vibration can cause all sorts of things to loosen, especially screws, all over the guitar. It's a good idea, IMO, to check screws and nuts for tightness periodically. I usually do it when changing strings, sometimes more often.

As for your original question, a setup tweak may or may not be necessary when changing string types. The total tension is probably one of the more important factors, sometimes requiring a small tweak of the truss rod if the tension is more or less than the previous set. That can only be determined when the new strings are up to tension. Nut and saddle slots might possibly need to be widened slightly, but that's not my usual experience. I have seen it, though. Otherwise, not much should be needed other than intonation, which can certainly need adjusting with a new string type or gauge. Probably not much, but maybe a tweak.

[major minor]

Thanks all,

Which string would have the higher tension flat our round? Same gauge/same material/same mfg.

Why go to a 12 vs 11. Tone?

Mark

[sgosnell]

Different brands have different tension, as do some of the same type strings with different alloy in the same brand. Many manufacturers list the tension of their strings either on the package, on their website, or both. D'Addario lists the tension for every string they manufacture, AFAIK, on both the package and website. The tensions of round and flat sets will usually slightly different, one way or another, even with the equivalent sets from the same manufacturer. Small differences usually aren't significant enough to matter. A few pounds one way or another won't affect the neck in most cases. 20 or 30 might, sometimes. It's never a sure thing either way. All I know is to string up to pitch and see what the action is, then adjust as needed, if necessary. With the same gauge strings, it's probably not necessary, but try it and see.

And yes, string size is one of the things that affect tone. I'm not sure .012 is a minimum for any type string, people do use smaller. I prefer .012 or .013 depending on the guitar, but that's just my personal preference. .011 sets are fine for many people, and the only way to find out if another size is better is to try it. It's your guitar, so use the strings you like.

[Pierrot]

May I recommend you to learn how to set up your instrument? There is no luthier in the world (bad, average o excellent) who can know more exactly than yourself what your needs are. Intonation, action, pu height as well as pole pieces height are quite simple adjustments anyone can do. If I for myself can do it, you sure can do it too.
There are tons of video in youtube about each of these matters, and most of them give valuable info.
BTW, a good setup makes for sure a huge difference in both sound and playability, often to the point of making yourself reconsider selling an instrument and instead decide to keep it as your prefered one.

[John A.]

Thanks all,

Which string would have the higher tension flat our round? Same gauge/same material/same mfg.

Why go to a 12 vs 11. Tone?

Mark

Purely a matter of preference. I use 10s on my semi-hollow and solidbody, 12's on my archtop (all are rounds), and have experimented a fair amount (including with flats).

I find the main difference to be in the feel and in the way the initial attack sounds, rather than the tone. I think it's a myth that heavier strings sound warmer and lighter sound brighter, though (obviously) some others disagree.

The answer is to experiment until you figure out what you like. Plenty of people use 11's, and there's nothing wrong with them.

John

[ptchristopher3]

As mentioned, you absolutely can do almost all your own setup work. As the last three posts make clear, you can find what you need only by a little experimenting. All the opinions here are nothing compared to your own.

I once got a set of T-I swing .010 inside the case of a used guitar I bought. This seemed strangely light to me. Then for laughs I tried them one winter.

They sounded great. Sure you need to go VERY easy with the right hand and have optimal relief and action, but the “tone” is great. Not plinky at all.

Personally I prefer a somewhat heavier string because it allows lower action and is more forgiving to my poor right hand control. But that is no reason for you to prefer them.

************

Astonishing, strange, but true: The total work (from both hands) involved in wiggling electrons from your PU to your amp is not much different for a .009 set as it is for a .013 set, IF you adjust to optimize each set (and doing this yourself is definitely the way to go).

With the .009 you will likely need higher action and a touch more relief to deal with the wider arc of the string.

With the .013 set this can seem like a set of transatlantic cables to some, but you can run far less relief, and an amazingly low action and still get a great sound with a VERY light right hand technique, and a surprisingly little amount of work from the left hand as you move those steel rods a very small distance.

*************

So definitely play what you want - you can make any gauge sound great. And certainly get comfortable with action, relief, and bridge compensation adjustments. In my opinion you will love your now-demystified guitar that is 100% under your control.

Yes nut-slotting is a little trickier, and a poorly functioning truss rod can be a real thrill (but is not very common). The other aspects of setup will happily bend to your will.

In my opinions.

Chris

[JaxJaxon]

As far as setup adjustment going from Round to flat of the same gauge the truss rod might need to be adjusted due to string tension. the slope of the saddels should face towards the stop bar tail peace. you might want to raise the pickups to get the same volume from the stings or you could just increase the volume of the amp. One thing for shure is the tone from round to flats is different.

[Peter C]

If you're coming from 11 rounds, maybe you had a plain 3rd on there? If so, one of the first things will be to intonate the wound 3rd in the new set of flats (move saddle forward), and raise the pickup pole piece/s for that string (lower output), if that's possible on your guitar. You may need to tighten the truss a tad, depending on the brand - D'Addario Chromes definitely have more tension than their roundwounds.

A guitar I bought which had Chrome 11s on it, sounded fine. I changed them out only because I prefer a different guage, so just go with your preferred gauge.

It should be possible to turn the saddles round!

Anyway, don't sweat it too much. Put those flats on there and decide whether they're going to work for you.

[major minor]

Got the new strings on. Did some adjustment on the intonation. I need to get a little more movement on my D string saddle towards the neck. I'll need to try to reverse the one saddle piece.

Has anyone tried to get the impossibly small clip loose from the screws without removing the entire bridge. I have a few dental picks but getting it back in may be a problem.

I did need to file out the nut a little (not deeper/just wider) for a few strings. I use a cheap acetylene torch cleaner and it works fine.

The new flats sound amazing. Can't wait till I get used to them. Nice "round glassy and deep sound". I like.

Mark

[major minor]

I never thought this guitar would sound this good.!

I'm sold on flats.

I have had some issues with having the guitar get out of tune at different points on the neck. I have had it in 2 different places for adjustments since new ( 18 months ago). I was just never quite satisfied until now.

My suspicion is that the two shops just put on cheap strings and let it go at that.

This is the first set of strings that I have installed on this guitar and I'm sold.

I did need to tweak the intonation a little (I'm at the end of adjustment on my D string but its close enough).

The guitar just sings. I think the strings are still vibrating when I close the case.

This guitar finally has a voice. Now I just need to get better on it. It has inspired me to be a better player.

Mark