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Hello,
I believe Amp modeling can be even better sounding esp in recording. And my belief is that with today's technology I think one do not has to buy an expensive Amp to get a genuine e jazz tone for recording.
What are your thoughts on this.
The below vedio is me and my best friend jamming on a simple blues, can you guess which one of the Guitarist use a real amp.
Or did we both use a real amp or Amp modeler.
And actually this performance my first performance on a stage.
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08-01-2019 03:20 PM
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Nice playing!
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Fantastic playing and sound/tone. I’d be interested in knowing the amplification chain.
Also impressive is appears both guitars are very affordable dispensing the thought that high end arch tops are needed to get a great tone. Looks like one guitarist is playing an Ibanez AG75(?) and the other a samick lasalle jz3.
Bravo!
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I can FEEL the difference. I just can’t play at my best through them.
Tube, yup.
SS, sure,
Guitar - AD conversion/processing/DA conversion... something different.
That being said, there are places where it makes sense. Just not for me.
My 2 cents
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Ty
Originally Posted by Steve Z
You guessed it right. My friend played the sammick and I payed the Ibanez but the model is af75, a slightly bigger version of ag75.
We used one line 6 amp modeler which has 2 separate Inputs/outputs and witn
Seperate modelers a d fxs . I forgot the model name. It was almost 10 years ago.we ran it directly to the p.a.
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I'm about to buy a SS amp for live gigs- a Roland Blues Cube Artist- just for it's simplicity:
No tubes to go microphonic (yes, I've had it happen during a gig)- and therefore no spares to carry
Lighter
Sounds the same at any volume, so no more "the right size amp for the room"- it'll do a bedroom up to outdoor gigs
This particular amp has 2 channels (which is very helpful for my cover band, which is not jazz), and the ability to blend the clean and dirty channels (again- helpful for my cover band)
Now... I've never played it, none are available locally, but going from the reviews I've seen- that it FEELS as good as it sounds, I'm buying one sight unplayed. The FEEL is key. Many people think this amp has bridged the gap, along with a few others (the Kemper Profiler is another one, but I want something simple with knobs, not complicated with a spaceship readout.)
We'll see.
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I've used SS and tube Fender modeling amps exclusively for the past 5 years or so for all gigs and rehearsals. Great tone and versatlity. They provide all the great guitar sounds I seek.
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I agree, the Fender mustang sounds great and very versatile, and very inexpensive compared to the real amps Originally Posted by cosmic gumbo
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Yep I’ve played a couple of gigs and rehearsals through a tech 21 fly rig > DI > PA and get decent clean tones from it. I still like the feel of an amp behind me though.
Last edited by guavajelly; 08-07-2019 at 06:11 AM.
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They both sounded good, not great to me. Very compressed. I think the recording did not capture the full dynamic range. At any rate, I posted for a couple years about switching to modelers (AxeFx II) and how I was never going back to tubes. I admitted that it didn't sound exactly the same but claimed that it was close enough and that the advantages blew away the disadvantages. Then , one day I went over to my friend Frankie Starr's house. He has about 10 '60s fender amps with reverb . I plugged my archtop in and played a few chords and almost fell to my knees. I had been fooling myself the whole time. There is absolutely no comparison between a real tube amp and a modeler. The modelers may be great for a recording and for convenience but the actual sound and feel that comes out of the speaker blows away *ANYTHING* you can get with a modeler and an FRFR setup.
Additionally, the effects in the modelers are pretty bad. The kempers effects are a joke and the axefx is much better but still not as good as an analog effects pedals. Axefx has some good sounding delays but the spring reverb sounds nothing like real spring reverb. AND how can you say you are imitating a fender amp and not have real spring reverb?!? One issue is that the demographics for that equipment does not include guys playing clean jazz with a hollowbody. They are catering towards nu-metal players with low tunings and grunge sounds. IMO, they could develop an accurate spring reverb if so motivated but on the forums from kemper/axefx it becomes apparent that it's not a dealbreaker for the vast majority of users.
So, long story short - I sold the modelers and switched back to tube amps. I have a reazer's edge luna for a solid state amp and even the solid state amp blows away the modelers for clean IMO. Does't sound like a tube amp but has a very immediate signal that cuts and feels good to play through. I think the 20ms delay you get from the modelers contributes to not feeling right too...
Originally Posted by vintagelove
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I have never owned a tube Amp,I do however prefer the dynamics, natural compression etc of a real tube amp when I play. But I can't really hear the difference on most recordings tbh
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I live in Galicia, northwest of Spain, and here we enjoy fishes and seafood which are said to be, emphatically, the best of the world. It is, indeed, apologetic. But it is probably true. No fish farm' s fish comes even close....
An amp is an amp, a bass (the fish, I mean) is a bass.
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Sounds good to me.
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Beautiful playing and lovely tone! I was a tube amp diehard for years. I tried lots of modelers but they didn’t satisfy me - until I tried the Yamaha THR10. Then I was convinced that modeling had arrived. (Probably there were other modeling amps/pedals/plug-ins before the THR10 that matched its uncanny realism, but the THR10 was the first one *I* tried. ;-) I also have a Yamaha AG06 mini mixer/USB interface that has an onboard amp simulator for the guitar input. It’s crazy-good sounding - even better than the THR10 (IMHO). I was noodling with the AG06 today, comparing it to a Line 6 SonicPort VX. (I think Yamaha now owns Line 6.) I’m dialing in very clean tones so any deficiencies in the amp modeling won’t be masked by heavy overdrive. I preferred the AG06. I’m now of the ‘if it sounds good do it’ school of guitar amplification.
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Just goes to show you how subjective all this is. I bought a THR10 and couldn't get rid of it fast enough. maybe there was something wrong with it. Originally Posted by lukmanohnz
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Great story Jack and so much more poignant given the depth and range of your experience and knowledge.
Originally Posted by jzucker
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Truer words were never spoken!! Originally Posted by jzucker
From what I understand, the early THR10s had a lot of ‘buzz’ or hiss in the tone, which was an artifact of the tube modeling algorithm (...or something.... ;-). Yamaha released a firmware update that supposedly fixed the problem. I checked my firmware when I first bought mine and confirmed that it was the latest revision. Not sure if that’s what you may have objected to. I find the higher gain settings a bit noisy (it’s not really noise - more like a low-level, steady ‘boiling’..... ok never mind, it’s noise...) but then I rarely use them. I’m always either on the clean or crunch settings.
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i just found it thin and bright and extremely un-tube-like! Originally Posted by lukmanohnz
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My Roland Blues Cube Artist arrives today. It's not a modeler, it's "all-analog", but it is solid state. Nothing but glowing reviews. Mike Stern loves them. We'll see.
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what's that have to do with this thread? Originally Posted by ruger9
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Going to something other than tubes for gigs. That's the reason I bought the Roland. It may not be a modeler (digital), but it is non-tube, and it seems to fit better in a thread about modelers than in a thread about tube amps. Originally Posted by jzucker
what's that have to do with this thread?
I love the idea of an amp that actually sounds the same at any volume.... without having to add an attenuator into the mix like you would with a tube amp. No more "several different wattage tube amps, depending on the size of the gig", the SS/modeler stuff doesn't need that.
I'm a tube guy, always will be, but if the Roland sounds great for live use, I'm sold. Lighter, sounds the same at any volume, no tubes to deal with/protect (or spares to carry). Still has the downside of not really being DIY-repairable (but then you could say the same thing about the PCB TUBE amps), but the positives seem to outweigh the negatives, for live use.... I'll always have tubes at home.
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It's a misconception that you have to add an attenuator into the mix with a tube amp. For rock guys doing recording and playing old-timey leads that may be a factor but I've never worried about that with any tube amps I play through. Originally Posted by ruger9
Re: Solid State, I've recently started using the raezer's edge luna amplifier (i'm an early beta tester) and I really love it. 4 or 5 lbs ,200w, reverb, tone controls that are placed for guys who were brought up playing fender amps and just gorgeous, clean tone. Not middy or muddy or overly fat in the mids which is an issue with many other SS jazz amps.
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Well, to be more specific... if you've got a tweed Bassman that you just love turned up to 7-8 to get your crunch, very few bars will allow you to play that loud... that is where the attenuator comes in. OR you bring a Pro Junior instead, which can get crunchy at lower volumes (this is the "right size amp for the venue" situation.) Originally Posted by jzucker
I'm not primarily a jazz player, so low volume jazzy cleans are not always the situation I reference with my posts here... but that's another reason why I'm interested in SS: doesn't matter if it's clean tones or dirty tones, they (supposedly) sound pretty much the same at any volume (of course taking the obvious speaker breakup out of the equation).
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Which is why i use an overdrive pedal. Overdrive pedals are good enough nowadays that you don't need a $27k dumble to get the dumble sound or an $8k tweed bassman either...I've found that a good pedal going into a clean tube amp sounds way better than a modeler modeling the actual breakup point on a dumble, tweed amp, plexi marshall, etc.... Originally Posted by ruger9
Fundamentally, i use my tube amps as clean power devices. I'm never playing loud enough to get power tube distortion.
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Not so subjective as many could think. In professional audio, a common procedure is asking samples of people their sensations, say, after a concert for instance, regarding parameters like loudness, boominess, reverberation, intellibiligity, clarity and so on, and use those statistics in order to achieve better room responses, speaker performances and the like. Normally, people with roughly the same cultural level and normal hearing health will opine in the same direction. Originally Posted by jzucker
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