Fret size preference for swing

**Roy Boy** · 08-01-2019, 08:48 AM

Greetings,

Newby here. I'm finishing an archtop build I started some time ago and am torn about what size frets to put in it. This is a big (17") box made from vintage woods so I'm expecting a big sound. It will be amplified with a floating pickup for flexibility, but I expect to be playing acoustic swing a good share of the time.

So, it seems a lot of the old Gibsons from the 50s and 60s were fitted with medium jumbo wire (0.104" wide). Playing acoustic flattop and electrics, I've come to favor what's referred to as "vintage" dimension (0.090" wide) wire and wonder if it might be appropriate for swing. I'm putting in EVO gold wire either way so durability is not a factor.

So swing players, what size frets do you prefer? Thanks in advance for helping me sort this out.

**deacon Mark** · 08-01-2019, 01:05 PM

I like jumbo or what we call tall frets that are also wide. They do not have to be the widest but I find the bigger the fret and higer it sits has really no downsize to using unless you are doing a partial refret. I recommend this fret to my customers but of course they can choose whatever the what in the end. Jescar EVO gold yes they are golden.

**mr. beaumont** · 08-01-2019, 02:13 PM

Smaller the better for a rhythm box.

**Greentone** · 08-01-2019, 02:27 PM

Swing was dead and gone by the 50s and 60s. It was a 30s and 40s phenomenon. If you look at the frets on Gibsons and Epiphones from the 30s and 40s, they are pretty small pieces of fretwire.

Vintage fretwire may feel pretty strange to you. It's what I have on my 1938 Gibson L-50, and what I had on my old Gretsch. I'm used to it, but if you are accustomed to the big frets that tend to come on modern guitars, you might want to lean in that direction.

Check with Campusfive, however, for a definitive response on what works well for swing in a contemporary environment. He is on this forum and he is most authoritative.

**Stringswinger** · 08-01-2019, 02:43 PM

Herb Ellis was essentially a Swing player as he played four to the bar rythm and Charlie Christian lines. His signature Gibson frets would be a good choice. I am guessing they were medium jumbos.

**Greentone** · 08-01-2019, 03:58 PM

SS, yes. I was surprised by this. I played his '53 Gibson when I had dinner with him once. He was gracious enough to let me examine his guitar, which he'd had since his days with the Oscar Peterson Trio.

He'd had a bunch of work done by Gibson at that point--i.e., humbucker installed, tune-o-matic bridge installed, new frets... The frets were indeed medium jumbo. It was a bit jarring to see a 50s ES-175 with modern appointments, but I have to confess that the whole thing played and sounded incredibly good.

The guitar was very lightweight. The humbucker sounded quite good, although I really like P90s. (Herb confessed that he did, too, but hated the noise--deal breaker for him.) The neck, with the new frets, felt great. Seemed to work great for Ellis, too, when he comped--which, as you note--he did with the authority of Freddie Green.

**gitman** · 08-01-2019, 05:32 PM

I personally don't make a distinction between comping and taking a solo in a band setting when it comes to fretwire or neck size etc. The guitar has to play comfortably for hours and play 100% in tune while giving me the sound I want. Since you mention comping specifically I assume that you'll be using medium/heavy roundwound strings - lower frets will make fretting those more difficult and a very tall wire will put more strain on your fingertips. A wide fret will cause problems with intonation so - as in so many cases - you should seek a good compromise : a medium tall wire with a narrow-ish crown could be your ticket.

**entresz** · 08-01-2019, 08:09 PM

Bigger isn't always better for frets
At the recommendation of other guitar players I had my Les Paul Recording refretted with jumbo fretwire.
It was dreadful to play - felt 'stiff' and awkward.
Not sure if it was psychological but I don't think it sounded as good, less woody and more metallic.

Anyway I had it refretted again using fairly small fretwire - kind of like what old Gibsons have.
It's now one of the best playing guitars I have.

An expensive exercise , but now I know that I prefer smaller frets.

**omphalopsychos** · 08-02-2019, 01:50 PM

6105 for me

**DRS** · 08-03-2019, 01:18 PM

Medium frets with a rounded shoulder. The railroad tie frets on my Les Paul aren't as smooth for those fast chord transitions needed for swing.

**campusfive** · 08-03-2019, 06:25 PM

Define "Swing".... My definition is not particularly broad.

**Roy Boy** · 08-03-2019, 08:24 PM

Originally Posted by campusfive

Define "Swing".... My definition is not particularly broad.

Real Book Era primarily, not Gypsy, not Western or Dawg (although I do enjoy those genres) Autumn Leaves, Four, etc.

Growing up in the 60s, I seems like Gibson was putting jumbo wire in all their instruments and Benedetto specs it in his book. Since I'm not planning on always playing this guitar through an amp, but in acoustic ensemble with other string instruments sometimes- my instincts tell me jumbo wire is not the ideal spec for this instrument. Through a fat humbucker it doesn't make a lot of difference, but acoustically it does. Since I'm using EVO, wear is not an issue, which I suspect may have driven the popularity of Jumbo wire. Those early era big a band guitarists with monster strings must have chewed through frets at an alarming rate.

I've been building instruments and playing music for a long time in other genres, just not jazz since since college really. My goal in this thread was to tap the collective experience of serious players before I fret the guitar because it's not a job I care to repeat unnecessarily. I've gotten enough feedback so far to support my initial instinct to go with 6105. Sorry if I was unclear in my original posting.