Call for moratorium on 335s

[Woody Sound]

Those knobs are all messed up!

[TOMMO]

Those knobs are all messed up!

Obviously a fake....

[wengr]

I've had both real and copy 335s but I always had trouble with the very long expanse of guitar top between the tailpiece and the bottom end of the guitar. Like, what purpose does that acre of wood serve anyway?

I assume it puts the strap button where they wanted it, which in turn puts the fingerboard where they wanted it to be positioned for a standing player.

[Woody Sound]

Cuz they're SEXY.

Attachment 62695

That's mine posing on my equally hawt Ford Focus.

Next time you buy a compact Ford, buy it in this color. THAT'S hot!

[christianm77]

Next time you buy a compact Ford, buy it in this color. THAT'S hot!

Also a good colour for a tele

[rabbit]

The debbil wants you to trade your 335 for a Tele.

[Marty Grass]

The are many varieties within the jazz family. I'm old school as anyone. Nonetheless, here's a favorite of mine. It doesn't have the wide dimensions of a large archtop, but it works.

[Gitfiddler]

The are many varieties within the jazz family. I'm old school as anyone. Nonetheless, here's a favorite of mine. It doesn't have the wide dimensions of a large archtop, but it works.

Heritage's Millenium series is a fantastic semi-hollow/semi-solid instrument. The above video of the amazing Wolfgang Muthspiel demonstrates its jazz tones very well.

[sgcim]

Larry Carlton started it in the 70s. No one played a 335 before he became popular as a studio player back then. Everyone said, "I'm gonna be a studio player like Carlton, and play with Steely Dan, Michael franks, etc..
If we string anyone up, I say let's start with Larry Carlton. Everything should take care of itself if we get rid of him.

[rob taft]

For me, it was this guy. But it was Larry Carlton and his clones , who inspired me to wreck my 1960 ES 345 by installing a brass nut, bridge and higher output pickups.

Cream - Crossroads (Farewell Concert - Extended Edition) (5 of 11) - YouTube

[GNAPPI]

Larry Carlton started it in the 70s. No one played a 335 before he became popular as a studio player back then. Everyone said, "I'm gonna be a studio player like Carlton, and play with Steely Dan, Michael franks, etc..
If we string anyone up, I say let's start with Larry Carlton. Everything should take care of itself if we get rid of him.

Nah, others were there playing 335's before then to string up :-)

Justin Hayward (moodies) Ritchie Blackmore (Deep Purple) Alvin Lee (TYA) Clapton.

[rabbit]

Alvin Lee !

[Average Joe]

Hank Garland kept playing it so they eventually had to give him a signature guitar just to make him stop

[Woody Sound]

Alvin Lee !

Elvin Bishop!

[lawson-stone]

hank garland kept playing it so they eventually had to give him a signature guitar just to make him stop

reeeeeeevvvvveeeeeeeerrrbb!!!

[pingu]

For me, it was this guy. But it was Larry Carlton and his clones , who inspired me to wreck my 1960 ES 345 by installing a brass nut, bridge and higher output pickups.

Cream - Crossroads (Farewell Concert - Extended Edition) (5 of 11) - YouTube

did you keep the PAFs ?

[Danny W.]

If they're too heavy, you can save some weight by removing the Bigsbys.

They're all under 7 lbs, so I'm fine with them as is.

Danny the whammy, who'd a thought it!

There was a very long time that I wouldn't have thought it either. Of the dozen 355 Gibsons, only the last one I bought had a Bigsby. Prior to that, the only guitars I'd had with a Bigsby were two Gretsch White Falcons and a Guild Duane Eddy DE-500. I never liked the tailpieces on these. I'd had a '71 355 with a Vibrola tail[piece that I did like and when I had the '94 Custom Shop guitar with the L-5S trim built by Roger Giffin I told him to put one of those on it. He strongly suggested a Bigsby because Gibson was no longer making the Vibrola, but I insisted on having one. He managed to find an old one that needed to be replated and I told him to clean it up and put it on. I came to regret that later on.

I almost turned down the blonde 355 because of the Bigsby, but it turned out to be one of my favorites and for about a year I used it for all my non-jazz gigs. I learned two things during that period: I really enjoyed the Bigsby, and it was time to find smaller and lighter guitars for stand-up gigs.

So Danny, how do the smaller bodied guitars compare to the larger ones, in tone, resonance and feel? They are very popular these days.

The two models I have are completely different animals from the 335/345/355 guitars in woods and construction, so they sound different. When I got my first one, the cherry CS-356, I took it to a gig and had some trouble adjusting to both the feel and the sound, but it didn’t take me long to get used to it. When I got my first Johnny A. I immediately thought it was one of the best guitars I’ve ever played, but neither model is a direct replacement for a 335. Gibson has made small guitars that have similar woods and construction to a 335 or 355, the ES-339 and 359, but I've never played either one.

Danny W.

[Doctor Jeff]

Uh, Larry Carlton was not the first. There were lots of players using a 335-style guitar back in the day, especially Chuck Berry, Roy Orbison and Grant Green. I think Lee Ritenour started out on a 335 as well. And of course the rock guys.

McLaughlin also used a 335 for awhile in the 70’s.

In terms of popularity re’ jazz at least there’s little question Mr. 335 has popularized that guitar more than anyone. Ironic that his most famous solo, Kid Charlemagne, is performed on a Tele.

[arielcee]

Uh, Larry Carlton was not the first. There were lots of players using a 335-style guitar back in the day, especially Chuck Berry, Roy Orbison and Grant Green. I think Lee Ritenour started out on a 335 as well. And of course the rock guys.

McLaughlin also used a 335 for awhile in the 70’s.

In terms of popularity re’ jazz at least there’s little question Mr. 335 has popularized that guitar more than anyone. Ironic that his most famous solo, Kid Charlemagne, is performed on a Tele.

Well to be exact, didn't Chuck Barry use a 345 or something? I know Grant used a 330. But yes doublecut thinlines...

[sgcim]

Uh, Larry Carlton was not the first. There were lots of players using a 335-style guitar back in the day, especially Chuck Berry, Roy Orbison and Grant Green. I think Lee Ritenour started out on a 335 as well. And of course the rock guys.

McLaughlin also used a 335 for awhile in the 70’s.

In terms of popularity re’ jazz at least there’s little question Mr. 335 has popularized that guitar more than anyone. Ironic that his most famous solo, Kid Charlemagne, is performed on a Tele.

I think it was those bends he did (like at the end of "Gaucho") that got everyone excited. They went out and bought those big frets that he used.

[Bach5G]

Lucille.

[Robertito]

Uh, Larry Carlton was not the first. There were lots of players using a 335-style guitar back in the day, especially Chuck Berry, Roy Orbison and Grant Green. I think Lee Ritenour started out on a 335 as well. And of course the rock guys.

McLaughlin also used a 335 for awhile in the 70’s.

In terms of popularity re’ jazz at least there’s little question Mr. 335 has popularized that guitar more than anyone. Ironic that his most famous solo, Kid Charlemagne, is performed on a Tele.

Source link:

The Story Behind The : Larry Carlton's sessions with Steely Dan and Joni Mitchell

"A few words on Larry Carlton’s celebrated guitar tone are in order. We start with the amp. Remembering that session, he also recalled: 'I can’t remember why but I decided to take my little Tweed Deluxe with my 335 and that became my lead sound with Steely Dan.'”

[Marty Grass]

These are broad stroke comments. History often is best understood that way.

There were archtops for decades that were essentially tuned percussion instruments.

Pickups were added and solo guitar became a thing. This rapidly led to the dedicated electric guitar, which allowed loud solos.

Innovation went rampant. There were different types of pickups, bridges, and circuits. The vibrato was another that emulated the Hawaiian lap steel and the pedal steel effects. These made the electric guitar a distinct species.

The Gibson semi-hollows, especially the 355, commonly had Bigsbys on them in the 1950s and early 1960s. These semis also might have stereo, Varitones, and gold hardware. The era had cars with big fins. It was a time in which "more was more". Everything was put on these instruments to add to the glory of them. The Bigsby plant was next door to Gibson in Kalamazoo, not by coincidence. The 355 had a lot of real estate on its top to fill. A large gold Bigsby took up that space. The Maestro didn't need all of the tailpiece gold to function.



The smaller solid bodies were also guilded in the high end models. The more gold, the better.


My point is that function wasn't the only factor driving design. Bigsbys were cheap for Gibson to install and, for many, added to the visual appeal. Look at the competition at the time.




Now we are more practical and less garish.

For those of you old enough to have gone through the era when the wah wah and fuzz tone pedals were introduced, you'll recall how grossly overused these were. The first artistic use of the wah wah came years later with Jimi Hendrix. The Bigsby also went through that roll out where it was overdone in the 50s and early 60s. Now it is expected to be used sparingly.

So the original topic was about the 335 and jazz. Step back and ask the foundational question, what is jazz? Can it include an electric instrument like the Hammond B3 with Leslie speakers? There's some weird, non-traditional jazz sounds. How about quarter tones?

Push it more toward the present, 40 years ago. Did Jaco and his band play Jazz? I think so.

This conversation is about lumpers vs. splitters, traditionalists vs. innovators, small vs. big tent. It's all fun.

The big question is whether this is where jazz goes to die, on some obscure planet and in the hands of humanoids.

[msr13]

I believe he uses a little reverb. Just a touch, but his sound is usually not 100% dry, if my ears are working. No delay, though.

Just an aside... but I do indeed love this album... Thanks for the post, Jorge.

[christianm77]

These are broad stroke comments. History often is best understood that way.

There were archtops for decades that were essentially tuned percussion instruments.

Pickups were added and solo guitar became a thing. This rapidly led to the dedicated electric guitar, which allowed loud solos.

Innovation went rampant. There were different types of pickups, bridges, and circuits. The vibrato was another that emulated the Hawaiian lap steel and the pedal steel effects. These made the electric guitar a distinct species.

The Gibson semi-hollows, especially the 355, commonly had Bigsbys on them in the 1950s and early 1960s. These semis also might have stereo, Varitones, and gold hardware. The era had cars with big fins. It was a time in which "more was more". Everything was put on these instruments to add to the glory of them. The Bigsby plant was next door to Gibson in Kalamazoo, not by coincidence. The 355 had a lot of real estate on its top to fill. A large gold Bigsby took up that space. The Maestro didn't need all of the tailpiece gold to function.



The smaller solid bodies were also guilded in the high end models. The more gold, the better.


My point is that function wasn't the only factor driving design. Bigsbys were cheap for Gibson to install and, for many, added to the visual appeal. Look at the competition at the time.




Now we are more practical and less garish.

For those of you old enough to have gone through the era when the wah wah and fuzz tone pedals were introduced, you'll recall how grossly overused these were. The first artistic use of the wah wah came years later with Jimi Hendrix. The Bigsby also went through that roll out where it was overdone in the 50s and early 60s. Now it is expected to be used sparingly.

So the original topic was about the 335 and jazz. Step back and ask the foundational question, what is jazz? Can it include an electric instrument like the Hammond B3 with Leslie speakers? There's some weird, non-traditional jazz sounds. How about quarter tones?

Push it more toward the present, 40 years ago. Did Jaco and his band play Jazz? I think so.

This conversation is about lumpers vs. splitters, traditionalists vs. innovators, small vs. big tent. It's all fun.

The big question is whether this is where jazz goes to die, on some obscure planet and in the hands of humanoids.

This wouldn’t be a problem if we’d all adopted the synthaxe back in the ‘80s. Instead here we are playing musty smelling dad boxes with twang bars.