Elektra 185 with a vintage '40s field coil

[Valdez]

Oh WoW! I love it.

[Jabberwocky]

That was a really astounding good tone. The DeArmond Guitar Mike C is an overlooked gem. A refreshing new "old" tone distinct from the predominant tone of humbuckers. You are now on my Persons I Envy list. That Trenier Jazz Special is a great buy.

Hope they encourage you to reach for great heights, Omph. Gear like these compel you to raise your game.

[omphalopsychos]

Hope they encourage you to reach for great heights, Omph.

That's the plan, Jabs. Glad I have this community to provide additional encouragement. It's funny that you say this - you can't imagine the amount of motivation I feel at the moment and have been feeling throughout the year. I'm traveling next week to NY to get some guidance on my playing and some mentorship from some of my all time favorite musicians. We'll see what becomes of it. This year has already been a stepwise progression in my playing and musicianship. Even more than ever before I feel I am just scraping the surface, which is a wonderful feeling. I look forward to feeling it even more strongly the deeper I dig.

[ruger9]

Just gotta' post another video showing the love for the Elektra...

[BBGuitar]

How is the field coil powered? As a choke or a fixed voltage?

[gitman]

Hey Jonathan, let me know when and where you'll be playing in Heidelberg !

[Phil59]

How freaking cool is this amp? It's an EH 185 with a master vol, made by Michiel Helsloot in the Netherlands. I always wanted one but the cost to ship was prohibitive. Anyway, I found one used for a solid price and ordered it. It underwent some minor shipping damage, so I had to take it to the local amp wizard, Chris Barnett, whom I STRONGLY recommend for anyone in the bay area. Anyway, while he had it on the bench, he sent me a text "Do you want me to put a field coil in it? I've got a 40's Rola if you want." I said "Are you f**ing kidding me? Do it!" So he did. The result is just amazing.

Attachment 61617Attachment 61618

Here's a clip of an arrangement I'm messing around with of Eric Dolphy's "Serene". For you swing purists, I apologize for desecrating your amp with flatwounds. You're probably also wondering why I got something like this to play Dolphy. And you may be wondering why I'm wearing a DEATH t shirt.

The pickup on this tele is made by the one and only TK Smith.

You sound great, and so do your guitar and amp! Regarding the Elektra, how does it compare to the Vintage 47 VA-185G amp and/or the JR Barnyard pedal? If I remember right, you own at least the pedal and maybe the amp.

[omphalopsychos]

I’ve got the pedal and I’ve got a V47 Tonemaster, which is somewhat similar to the VA185. I haven’t played the VA185, but neither my pedal nor the V47 sound anywhere near as good as this. However, the JR Barnyard fits in my backpack. This does not. They both sound great in their own way but there’s no comparison. It’s really hard to capture the difference with a video because so much of it has to do with how the amp responds to your playing. You have to interact with it to understand the difference. Now to be fair, the barnyard/pescadero were not made to replace these amps; they’re for having a good sounding minimalist rig you can take anywhere. I don’t think you can beat the nocturne preamp for this type of sound. Another OD I’ve really liked lately that isn’t necessarily in this type of world but sounds absolutely killer is the Fairfield circuitry barbershop.

[omphalopsychos]

How is the field coil powered? As a choke or a fixed voltage?

Ah I don’t know the answer to that question but I can ask my tech!

[murrayatuptown]

Very nice. No justifications necessary! I had been wanting to hear what people get sound-wise, from 'blade' pickups on solid-body guitars. I know some are not interested in clean sounds, and some pickup makers warn that they aren't happy with ultra-high-gain amps (hum-wise).

I have been going a little crazy lately buying field coil speakers to learn whatever there is to learn as a technical person. (TBD).

I have a local shop that has been reconing old and new speakers for decades and took them my #1 candidate. They leave the field coil alone unless they find problems, and replace the cone & voice coil. $ vs. risk of me doing DIY damage, so I'll let someone else do it.

I am having my doubts about the power capability of some of them, and wondering how much difference in sound there might be among whatever one finds these days. It can take some research to identify, if even possible, who made certain older ones if no decipherable info is present. I am finding 30's & 40's "Radio's Master" catalogs online to help me figure out how the field coils were powered. It used to be common for companies to sell standalone field coil power supplies to place in a cabinet, too.

I am using the rationalization if that the rescue speaker plus refurb doesn't cost more, or not much more, than a permanent magnet speaker of the same size, it's not a stupid investment*. *I'll be the first to admit if I'm wrong.

I have some awful solid state amps I want to gut for the cabinets, add a low power homebrew tube amp, and the latest vision is adding a field coil speaker. A lot of steps involved, but I have the background to do it safely.

I have also been lucky in that all of the speakers I have, do not have any conspicuous field coil problems...they are just dirty.

I don't think the ancient speakers were sold with as many flavor variations as modern guitar speakers. Many were just in big floor-standing radios with low power amps.

Now, there were some very hefty field coil speakers from big name companies. Other than a 10" Utah and a 12" mid-30's one that looks a lot like a Jensen, with Jensen & Elektone patent numbers), mine so far bear no pedigrees.

In the end, the sound will hopefully justify this adventure, or confirm it was a bad idea.

I didn't see stated in this thread yet the simple statement (but have, I believe, seen elsewhere) that a field coil is simply an electromagnet instead of a permanent magnet. It electrically provides the magnetic field with a DC power supply, that we know permanent magnet speakers achieve through different technology.

Old Jensen patents from 1930's for field coil speakers talk about permanent magnets, making me think that 'antiquated' field coils were, for a while, an improvement over existing weak permanent magnet technology, until it improved with the development of AlNiCo alloys.

As late as 1949, I see some speaker companies were still selling both PM and FC speakers, and found data for replacement cones and universal replacement field coils from companies that also made & sold speakers, as late as 1968 (keeping existing products alive, I suppose). Not as much data on voice coils yet. Maybe that was the easy part at the time (to make or to buy). Random catalogs are just a snapshot of history...not the whole book.

Some people are telling me that the response time of the field coil and power supply effects (as discussed endlessly with tube/valve amps) are part of the characteristic sound of FC speakers. I am seeing wide variation in how the FC's are powered, and some guitarists in the modern era varied the voltage that provides the field coil's power to vary the sound. I think that may be largely lost information, to be approached cautiously, since they are not easily replaced. Rewinding a field coil is possible by a transformer winding service, but not always a friendly process. Some are bolted in place, some are welded to preserve alignment.

Philco, not a brand one associates with musical instrument amps, made speakers and replacement field coils FOR OTHER BRANDS (per catalog). They were not intended for Philco speakers. The couple I have do not use hardware, so I assume (based on the 'for other brands' and the permanent-looking construction) they considered their speakers serviceable for cone and voice coil, but replaceable in the event of field coil damage.

The local shop has field coil speakers from known origin (Leslie speaker cabinet, for example), but they are priced much higher than the mystery rescue candidates I'm starting with.

[murrayatuptown]

I see MANY people, including pedal makers spelling someone's name 'Barnyard'.

Is it this guy, Junior Barnard - Wikipedia, who being the from Western Swing genre might have been closer to a barnyard than others?

[powerwagonjohn]

There are people/businesses that still make FC speakers. And varying the coil strength will effect the drivers output and possibly tone. But to what degree? I think I am on a similar journey with my two Gibsons GA-75 amps. I will be watching your posts with great anticipation.
Thanks john
I see this is not the thread I posted in earlier, with information on my Gibson GA-75's but it is elesware on this forum.

[murrayatuptown]

Thanks.

Hopefully I have vicarious success to share instead of that kind of disaster.

[sgosnell]

The JR Barnyard pedal is a takeoff of the actual name of Junior Barnard, built to try to achieve his sound, but having nothing else to do with him. Since the spelling is different, copyright/trademark issues are presumably avoided. There are threads here discussing the pedal.

[murrayatuptown]

Thanks.

Maybe the takeoff/parody brand name CREATES their own trademarkable element, the not-uncommon surname alone probably not being protectable. I think it's a good idea now instead of my initial puzzled reaction.