Gibson Nighthawk Standard

[Lionelsax]

Hi !

I've got a Gibson Nighthawk, even if I'm not a good guitarist I would like to own a real jazz guitar.
I don't play rock and blues anymore, that's a choice maybe one day I will change my mind.
So this is my story with my only electric guitar.
1996-1998 : light gauge
1998-2002 : 11-52 gauge roundwounds

In 2002, I brought it to the guitar tech, maybe a guy who was more used to see light gauge on a solid body...
He said for this guitar, 10-46 was the heviest gauge I could put on it, the strings had a very high action.

So...

2002-2014 : 10-46 roundwounds (with relatively high action)

Since 2014, I have been my own guitar tech, I use Pyramid 11-48 flatwounds with low action.

My questions are :

- Is it worth to put a set of 13 on this guitar ?
- Should I purchase a cheap jazz guitar or a kind of nylon solid body ?
- What should I do ?
- What is your experience with solid bodies ?

[Litterick]

Whatever you do, don't sell the Nighthawk.

I don't think stringing it with 13s will make it more jazzy. It is a rock guitar, made for light strings. I tried Pyramid 11-48 flatwounds on my L6-S (a similar guitar to the Nighthawk in many respects) for a few months. They were very good strings, but the guitar did not sound like itself any longer. The wound strings, especially, were overwhelming. So I replaced them with Rotosound 10-46 roundwounds.

Thick flatwound strings are made for archtops, not solids. I think 13s would sound very dense. You might also have problems with the nut and the bridge, which are not made for strings that thick.

[Midnight Blues]

Unless it was a choice, not sure why you had to have the action set high using 10 gauge round wound?

Litterick is right, you more than likely would have to cut the nut, particularly if you go 50 and above. That’ll create problems if you ever want to drop back down.

[Lionelsax]

Unless it was a choice, not sure why you had to have the action set high using 10 gauge round wound?

Litterick is right, you more than likely would have to cut the nut, particularly if you go 50 and above. That’ll create problems if you ever want to drop back down.

I think the guy touched the truss rod in 2002, between 2002 and 2014 when there wasn't 10-46 at the store, I used to put 10-52 because I didn't want 9-46 sets.

[Sam Sherry]

I've got a Gibson Nighthawk . . . this is my story with my only electric guitar.

I am so jealous. I've squandered countless hours of my life on gear. You have used that time for other things. You're way, way ahead, Lionel.

Is it worth to put a set of 13 on this guitar ?

Go to a store and try a flat-top guitar strung with 013s. Are you inspired to work with that feel?

If you put 013s on your NightHawk you will need to adjust string height, truss rod and intonation at the bridge.

Should I purchase a cheap jazz guitar or a kind of nylon solid body ?

If you want a nylon-string guitar, think twice about NOT getting a solid-body (Godin, Epi Chet Atkins etc.). Don't you want to hear that nylon-string sound without having to plug in?

I'm also going to go out on a limb and advise you NOT to get a cheap jazz guitar. Your NightHawk is a professional instrument and you are used to that. It's likely that buying some GSO ("guitar-shaped object") will just leave you frustrated, wishing you had spent a little more and gotten a little more.

What is your experience with solid bodies ?

I've heard people play fine jazz on everything from fine custom-built archtops to very generic planks. In short, the better the player, the better the music. The actual guitar is just a tool.

Happy hunting, man.

[customxke]

You need a new tech.

[Lionelsax]

Go to a store and try a flat-top guitar strung with 013s. Are you inspired to work with that feel?

If you put 013s on your NightHawk you will need to adjust string height, truss rod and intonation at the bridge.

I'm used now to adjusting bridges and truss rods (I've got two electric basses).
Yes, I played on guitars strung with 13, the first electric guitar or kind of I touched was a Gibson Johnny Smith one pickup, an L5 too.
I've tried two Ibanez too, a PM and a Joe Pass, very good necks.
They weren't my guitars.

[Lionelsax]

Whatever you do, don't sell the Nighthawk.

I don't think stringing it with 13s will make it more jazzy. It is a rock guitar, made for light strings. I tried Pyramid 11-48 flatwounds on my L6-S (a similar guitar to the Nighthawk in many respects) for a few months. They were very good strings, but the guitar did not sound like itself any longer. The wound strings, especially, were overwhelming. So I replaced them with Rotosound 10-46 roundwounds.

Mine sounds like this, sorry for my playing.

With a Line6 112 Spider II amp

With an Avenger 15R amp

No amp with new strings.

[Midnight Blues]

I think the guy touched the truss rod in 2002, between 2002 and 2014 when there wasn't 10-46 at the store, I used to put 10-52 because I didn't want 9-46 sets.

Gotcha. I have 10-52 on one of my Les Pauls and the action is only marginally different that my others where I have 10-46.

That’s a pretty Nighthawk you have there and it sounds pretty jazzy to me. Nice playin’ too!

[Lionelsax]

Gotcha. I have 10-52 on one of my Les Pauls and the action is only marginally different that my others where I have 10-46.

That’s a pretty Nighthawk you have there and it sounds pretty jazzy to me. Nice playin’ too!

Thank you, yes it's a very nice guitar even if the neck alignement has never been perfect, the 1st string is farer from the egde of the neck than the 6th but this one is parallel to the edge. It's glued neck so nothing can be changed.
Despite this thing the guitar is perfectly in tune from 1st fret to the 22nd !
Nothing to say about electronics, just excellent !

When I played in rock trios with 10-46 the first string were sometimes stuck to the edge of the middle pickup.

[rpjazzguitar]

I've always heard good things about the Nighthawk.

I don't see why it couldn't be set up with lower action.

I'd question whether it's impossible to get a good "jazz" sound out of 10-46.

Great jazz has been played on every kind of guitar. And, great jazz has been played on light strings.

As far as my experience goes with solid bodies:

I played my first gigs on an L50, hollow body archtop. Couldn't control feedback (I didn't know how then). So, I switched to solid bodies and some semihollows.

I don't think that a solid with a humbucker sounds all that much different, or worse, than, say, a 175 with the same humbucker. Maybe alone at home and maybe in the studio, but probably not much on the average gig. Others will vehemently disagree.

I do think that, if you want to sound like Wes, you're probably going to need an L5. I've never heard anybody do it without one -- and I'll be interested to see if others disagree.

There's a group of top NYC jazz guitarists who gig as Strings Attached. Some of them play full body archtops, some play semihollow. I haven't seen anybody there go full solid body, but I don't go all that often.

Joe Pass sounded like himself on a Fender solid. Ted Greene sounded like a chorus of angels on a Tele. Lorne Lofsky plays what looks like a solid body and sounds simply incredible. Mike Stern gigged with Miles, using a Stratocaster.

[whiskey02]

Not a reason in the world you couldn't put on.11 or.12 flats and be perfectly happy with that guitar! A little adjustment of the neck, bridge, nut and (likely) play with the pickup height and you'll be good to go.
As Joe Pass said, "I've never seen a jazz piano"....set it up properly and play jazz on it and it'll be a fine. A good guitar is a good guitar.

I feel strongly that Litterick is way off the mark on this one. No offense intended, but I do disagree with your above post.

[Lionelsax]

Whatever you do, don't sell the Nighthawk.

I don't think stringing it with 13s will make it more jazzy. It is a rock guitar, made for light strings. I tried Pyramid 11-48 flatwounds on my L6-S (a similar guitar to the Nighthawk in many respects) for a few months. They were very good strings, but the guitar did not sound like itself any longer. The wound strings, especially, were overwhelming. So I replaced them with Rotosound 10-46 roundwounds.

Thick flatwound strings are made for archtops, not solids. I think 13s would sound very dense. You might also have problems with the nut and the bridge, which are not made for strings that thick.

Well, the Nighthawk is different, it has a long scale neck like Fender, a bridge that looks like a telecaster one.

Three pickups, ten configurations.

[Litterick]

I feel strongly that Litterick is way off the mark on this one. No offense intended, but I do disagree with your above post.

None taken, but I write from experience. The 11-48 strings barely fitted in the nut and bridge slots of the L6-S; any larger would have required permanent alterations. I found the Pyramid strings created more sustain than was comfortable for me, although others might like that.

[whiskey02]

Permanent alteration would be expected on any guitar when going up the heavier or lighter strings. The nut slots have to "fit" your strings so the nut is alterable or to be replaced. If you bought a used guitar that was set up with .13's you wouldn't hesitate to replace the nut if you prefer .11's, that's just the nature of guitar. That is, if a guitar is perfectly adjusted to .09's and you put .11's on it, you can't expect it to perform at it's best. Similar to for example setting the volume and tone controls on your amp for (your) single coil perfection, then plugging in a humbucker without making adjustments.
I suspect your experience with .11's may have been improved by lowering your pickups. Did they seem "overwhelming" as you say before even plugging into an amp?

[Litterick]

I think most guitarists change strings up or down without thinking about the nut. It is only a major change of several steps, one which produced unwanted noises, that would cause one to consider changing the nut.

My guitar sustains a lot with lightweight strings. Heavy strings made the sustain longer and not very pleasant. The pickups were already low. Now I play with 10s and higher pickups, which sounds and feels right.

[John A.]

Mine sounds like this, sorry for my playing.

With a Line6 112 Spider II amp

With an Avenger 15R amp

No amp with new strings.

The guitar sounds fine for jazz, or anything else. The effect of string changes on sound will be subtle, if even detectable, but you won't hurt anything by experimenting. If you want another guitar, by all means get one, but it's not necessary for jazz. I play an archtop, a semi hollow, and a strat. They offer different flavors, and one might work better in a particular setting than another, but they all work.

John

[Stringswinger]

I have a Gibson Les Paul Studio that I bought new and replaced the stock 10's with a set of TI flatwound 12's (12-50)

No modifications were needed and the guitar has a great jazz tone, much better than with the stock roundwound 10's.

This guitar could be my only jazz guitar if I were so inclined.

[kawa]

Since I join in the bigband, I changed my mind to think the guitar sounds which among the total band sound.
Decreased middle and bass for rezonant of chord sounds than combo play.
The bigband playing any genre, of couse Bigband Jazz, Latin, Pops, Dance, Japanese Enka, etc.
I felt need the solid guitar and some effector, I borrow the SG and ST and multi effector from young man for the testing.
After then I searched the good one for me, at last I found the Gibson Nighthawk SP-3.
Necks Mini-Hum sound is very good, enough for Jazz, the other sound has include little Gibson's smell, then I searchd good strings DR MT-10.
Effector : I didn't have any compact also any knowledge of them, as a time multi effectors appears on with some maturity, I bought Boss ME-30 and learned, next ME-33, next DOD GS30,and now DigiTich GNX-2.

[Lionelsax]

Whatever you do, don't sell the Nighthawk.

I don't think stringing it with 13s will make it more jazzy. It is a rock guitar, made for light strings. I tried Pyramid 11-48 flatwounds on my L6-S (a similar guitar to the Nighthawk in many respects) for a few months. They were very good strings, but the guitar did not sound like itself any longer. The wound strings, especially, were overwhelming. So I replaced them with Rotosound 10-46 roundwounds.

Thick flatwound strings are made for archtops, not solids. I think 13s would sound very dense. You might also have problems with the nut and the bridge, which are not made for strings that thick.

This is the guitar played with the bridge pickup.
It could sound rock'n'roll.

[Litterick]

Nice guitar.

[Lionelsax]

Experimenting again, I'd rather plug it into an amp but it's too noisy.
Guess the pickups I'm using.

[floatingpickup]

I've always heard good things about the Nighthawk.

I don't see why it couldn't be set up with lower action.

I'd question whether it's impossible to get a good "jazz" sound out of 10-46.

Great jazz has been played on every kind of guitar. And, great jazz has been played on light strings.

As far as my experience goes with solid bodies:

I played my first gigs on an L50, hollow body archtop. Couldn't control feedback (I didn't know how then). So, I switched to solid bodies and some semihollows.

I don't think that a solid with a humbucker sounds all that much different, or worse, than, say, a 175 with the same humbucker. Maybe alone at home and maybe in the studio, but probably not much on the average gig. Others will vehemently disagree.

I do think that, if you want to sound like Wes, you're probably going to need an L5. I've never heard anybody do it without one -- and I'll be interested to see if others disagree.

There's a group of top NYC jazz guitarists who gig as Strings Attached. Some of them play full body archtops, some play semihollow. I haven't seen anybody there go full solid body, but I don't go all that often.

Joe Pass sounded like himself on a Fender solid. Ted Greene sounded like a chorus of angels on a Tele. Lorne Lofsky plays what looks like a solid body and sounds simply incredible. Mike Stern gigged with Miles, using a Stratocaster.

Don’t forget about Ed Bickert (tele with a humbucker). Lorne Lofsky’s guitar is an Ibanez Roadstar. Not an expensive guitar at all, and it sounds great.
Keith

[kawa]

The Unique Guitar Blog: The Gibson Nighthawk Guitar

[ugarte]

I always thought that the Nighthawk had the potential to be a "swiss-army-knife" of guitars, sort of Ted Green Tele meets Les Paul. Relatively a bargain too.

Sounds good to me.