Vintage vs Reissue Fender Deluxe Reverb Amps

[icr]

I have an all original AB763 Deluxe Reverb. It is essentially a collector's item with all it's original tubes, but it does sound fantastic! Unless one's hobby is "tube amps" I'd recommend the newer one.

[Jimmy Mack]

Nice. A few years ago ( 7 ) a guy offered to sell his to me. $1400. It sounded like an amp. Maybe my ears were "off" that day.

[DawgBone]

Let's see, amp built during the height of American manufacturing excellence vs amp built at the height of profit driven cost cutting. This is a tough one....

[Phil59]

I have a '66 blackface and have had two reissues. There is no comparison in terms of pure sound. The '66 is fabulous. The reissues are OK, but the difference is very clear. And one of my reissues even had a '60s Jensen speaker. But if you are gigging with the amp with or without effects, the quality difference is not worth the big price difference, get the reissue.

[nevershouldhavesoldit]

I have a '66 blackface and have had two reissues. There is no comparison in terms of pure sound. The '66 is fabulous. The reissues are OK, but the difference is very clear. And one of my reissues even had a '60s Jensen speaker. But if you are gigging with the amp with or without effects, the quality difference is not worth the big price difference, get the reissue.

We’ve had a CS PR ‘64 in our backline for a few years. These are hand wired (on a turret board - they’re not true “point to point”) with decent iron and components plus a P10R. It’s an excellent little amp that’s mighty close to the original. The current list price is $2800, which is less that a decent original costs today but still too much (in my mind) for what you get. I’ve played it for at least 150 gigs with archtops and solids, SC and HB and I know it well. But the club owner bought it without asking me - I would have picked something like an equivalent Victoria, Carr, etc. But at least the CS version is in the right performance ballpark. IMO, the lesser reissues I’ve tried are weak imitators. The same is true for the Deluxe.

I’ve had about 10 BF and SF Fenders starting with a new 15” Pro (yes they briefly made a 15” Pro BF) in 1963. So I’m no stranger to the marque.

[jaymen]

I have been doing tube amp modifications, and repairs for many years. Prior to that I was in the electronics field doing service and repair on equipment since 1972. In 1972, there was still a ton of tube gear out there, home stereos, TVs, radios, Guitar Amps, you name it. Most of it was all hand wired, but there was some "hybrid" sets with a mix of solid state and tubes, and even some with Printed Circuit Boards for the low powered tubes.

There are many here who were not even alive back then to see first hand what the industry standards were, and how they evolved with the introduction of the transistor, and later, solid state devices like the IC. Thus, there is a lot of "Mojo" associated with earlier tube technology and myths surrounding it, most of which that are simply not true at all. I am amazed at how much "snake oil" is currently being sold in the musical instrument amplifier world today to newcomers and folks who have no experience with electronics as a profession. Most of it is pure hogwash that keeps getting repeated by people who do not have enough knowledge on the subject to debunk-it through critical thinking. Much of it is being pushed by those seeking to profit off there customers ignorance of electronics by selling them "Mojo".

All that said, it is far easier to replace a component on a printed circuit board, especially a single sided one, than it is to unsolder several components off a turret, post, or swagged eyelet board. It takes more heat, and you have to be very careful to not damage or overheat the other components and wires connected to the terminal the component you are removing. Dealing with cloth covered wire is a another BIG hassle all unto it's own and requires skill that can only be gained through experience(you learn by making mistakes).

A properly trained technician, with the right tools, can easily unsolder and remove components from a PCB with no damage to the board or traces, and it is much easier than digging into a hand wired rats nest. The only issues you might run into is that some designs require more mechanical disassembly to get access to the circuit boards, but that depends on the unit you are servicing.

The often repeated notion that all PBC guitar amps are destined to end up in a land fill is about as profetic as a doctor telling you your long term prognosis is death. There is no reason or basis for assuming a PCB has a shorter lifetime. There are issues with thermal expansion of parts that dissipate heat soldered to the PCB without proper stress relief in the leads, but that is a design issue, and not a PCB reliability issue. It can be remedied quite simply by elevating the part off the board, or re-wiring it with flexible leads (Fender calls it "hard wired").

Fender did not purposely design hand wired turret or eyelet boards for better reliability, it was simply the technology of the 1950-60s and was well established, and is was how tube gear was made back then. The assemblers of that era were experienced with hand wiring, as it was the only technology, so it was the logical and economical way to do things, pure and simple. It was only after automated assembly equipment became available, and printed circuit board manufacturing costs became economical that manufacturers switch to using it. That was also because at the same time, solid state transistors went from Germanium to Silicon, reducing their price, and increased their performance, and reliability, that phased out tube equipment. Older tube designs that remained in production continued to use the older technology and assembly techniques, mainly because with the arrival of solid state, and PCBs, tube type electronic components became surplus and were being dumped on the market for pennies on the dollar. There were also lots of assemblers out there at the time who got laid off from the tube equipment production lines and they were available and looking for work. For those few that stayed with tube type designs, it was a Bonanza; cheap surplus parts (many were military grade) and a surplus of assemblers. By the end of the 1970s however, the older work force had begun to age out, and, the source of inexpensive tube technology components began to dry up, labor costs had more than doubled, the boom was over. These factors, more than anything else is what forced the switchover to PCB technology.

[Rocket Roll]

...but why this fixation on Fender Deluxe Reverb? It has an unusable and unused channel which require extra tubes. It has a tremolo which you won't use 99% of the time (and if you need it, you can buy a decent pedal for $20). It lacks a mid knob. It is often too bassy. There are so many advanced 12-22W solutions, made by people who knew the shortcomings of the old designs.

[GuyBoden]

Just my opinion, but the modern PCB board FDR can be less noisy than the old eyelet board designs. Even with the same Tubes.

I've built quite a few AB763 amps.

[Little Jay]

Just my opinion, but the modern PCB board FDR can be less noisy than the old eyelet board designs. Even with the same Tubes.

I've built quite a few AB763 amps.

True

[Little Jay]

...but why this fixation on Fender Deluxe Reverb? It has an unusable and unused channel which require extra tubes. It has a tremolo which you won't use 99% of the time (and if you need it, you can buy a decent pedal for $20). It lacks a mid knob. It is often too bassy. There are so many advanced 12-22W solutions, made by people who knew the shortcomings of the old designs.

Haha yes you have a valid point!

I do still love my Twin Reverb though (but that does have the mid knob and I added the reverb also to the normal channel and I often use it as a mini PA for multiple guitar players and even bass).

[gggguitar]

Any tube gear from the 1960s will take more time and effort to make functional and reliable than a new amplifier. Many "vintage" amps I have seen or heard on the current market are trashed, modified or sound like crap.

Indeed. It's not to be taken for granted that a vintage amp that you find for sale is going to be a better buy than something new. You can almost assume that any vintage amp is going to need a lot of service so figure that into the purchase price.

I have learned this the hard way.