-
yeah, that mel bay book is a fountain of 1953 modernity! personally, i dont use them. i listen to a record and if i hear something that sounds cool, i'll figure it out by ear.
obviously, i dont use open strings on every chord. just where it makes an impression. take my advice, you need to think outside of your little chord box and dont get so worked up about someone else playing different stuff than you, man! its jazz. its supposed to be new and exciting, or would you prefer andres segovia came back from the grave to show you how to properly play your g barre chord?
-
03-24-2010 03:18 PM
-
When a discussion degenerates to the personal level, it ceases to be of interest (probably to most of us, not just me)
I think that I made the capo comment, not JohnW400, who is a knowledgeable and respected guy ... he's been here for quite a while, too.
cheers,
randyc
-
things degenerate to personal levels when people assume others arent capable players just because they share a different opinion/attitude about music/the guitar. the only things i have written as such have been in response to these kind of statements and overall negativity...
ive tried to back up everything i have written with documented examples supporting my ideas in the hopes other more open minded people might see there are other opinions besides the norm...
if someone cant offer up an opinion on a internet forum, then what is the POINT of a forum to begin with? the more time i spend on them, the more i find myself asking that.
and if someone cant offer a differing opinion without the other person telling them they are an inferior musician (wihout having actually heard them), then they obviously arent very confident in their own abilities. or maybe they are a little too confident.
-
Anyone ever try tuning their ukulele to Eb? Whenever Spanky plays his baritone sax, I'm tempted.
-
Originally Posted by eddue
Maybe it was my comment about the capo that you are referring to. I never considered that they wouldn't be used in Jazz. Most guitarists I know owns one but I never thought it would be an issue to use (or not use) it for playing Jazz. I just assumed it was an option given to the guitarist, not prohibited to certain styles of music.
-
You're EXACTLY right on the first point. Paraphrasing one of the founders "I may not agree with your opinion but I unfailingly support your right to express it". On the second count of the indictment, I didn't read the responses in the same way that you did (when I say "you", I mean the two of you that were having the disagreement). The escalation started mildly and got intense but I really didn't detect any disrespect of one another's skills, more like a difference in "taste". Originally Posted by mattymel
I belong to a number of forums other than jazz, one of them happens to be a machinists forum. The owner once asked me to to an informal study on forum "communication" and what makes people respond to verbal (written) "stimulus" the way that they do. I'm no psychologist, just a retired engineer, but it doesn't take an expert to figure out that most disagreements are simply because this is such a poor way of communicating.
No body language, no verbal nuances, no inflection, nothing to suggest that a person might be pulling your leg, for example. My own communication is so poor (resulting from years of writing technical reports and memoranda) that many regard me as an arrogant sh--head. Oh I forgot - I AM an arrogant sh--head !
Many of us have our opinions and talking points well considered in the forefront of our minds and therefore we interpret the opinions of others in a way that reinforces our own and NOT in a good way, most of the time. Pointing fingers at no one, of course, and again acknowledging that I know almost nothing about these things.
One of the suggestions that came out of our little survey on the machinists forum was simple courtesy. It's frequently helpful to phrase a contradictory response in a manner such as, "Yes, I see your point and it's a good one ... my personal experience doesn't support that, however, and have you considered that ....". And so forth.
This is the best run, most even-temperamented internet group with whom I've ever associated. Even the engineering forums can get a great deal more heated than we tend to allow here (by "allow" I mean exercising our self-control). And don't get me started on the firearms forums (I snoop ocasionally as a manner of design interest; I'm a mechanical engineer and an electronics engineer plus I have a metalworking and woodworking shop with pretty good capabilities).
But this thread reminds me specifically of one that ran to over a hundred pages in one of the machinists' forums. The topic was divining for water and I'll say no more - let your imagination go nuts, you'll never be able to project the craziness that the topic engendered from otherwise rational and intelligent responders.
We all have pet subjects that make us behave in a non-linear manner - for me it's politics and foreign trade practises - religion doesn't do much for me because I have none, never have. Oh, and any phrase that starts out like "Let me give you some advice ...", that's pretty much guaranteed to push anyone's buttons, right?
I hasten to add that I'm not a hippy-peace-and-love kind of guy, either, I'm perfectly capable of wrestling in the mud on any given day, given the right circumstances. I just think that this particular thread (like the water-divining one) is nothing much to get ones boxers in a bundle about!
Cheers !
-
A guitar tuned E-A-D-G-B-E is tuned to C, not E. Everything is in concert pitch. So if you tune down a half step, you're in Cb, aka B.
There are umpteen ways to tune a guitar, as I'm sure you're all aware. I'm not saying they're common in jazz, but that if you check the literature, you'll find pages of tunings.
I often tune my 5- and 6-string basses down a half step when playing with brass and reed players because they're generally in the keys of Bb and Eb, and occasionally in C and F, where a low Bb is handier than a low B.
The guys who play guitar with me sometimes tune down a half step to match the bass. When I'm on guitar, I just play what's in front of me and leave the tuning alone.
-
As an old trumpet player, I always had to transpose for C instruments, not the other way. Got used to playing music one step up. Was easier for me, playing one note at a time then for them to try to accomodate me.
-
It depends upon the situation. If you're the lone trumpet player in a jazz or blues combo, you're in a C-centric situaton. Even if there's a trombone player, he's likely to be thinking and playing in concert pitch rather than Bb. Originally Posted by amhabz
But if you're playing in a brass and reed band, that's another story. Twelve guys playing Bb and Eb instruments tips the balance, mainly because when it comes to improvising, certain keys that are common for C players are absolute dogs for Bb and Eb players to be playing all night. A lot of trombone players are playing trombone treble clef music these days, as well, which is non-transposing in Bb, like trumpet, soprano sax and tenor sax. E and A are a snap for guitar, bass and keyboards, but it's C# and F# for an Eb player, and F# and B for a Bb player.
The first thing guitar and bass players generally notice about big band performance is that the music is in keys like Bb, Eb, F, Ab, etc.
-
When ever I played with an orchestra, the music was already written in the correct key, as also a keyboard player, I do have problems with the music written in F#, B, C# etc. I can do it but rather not. With was with small combos were all their music was for C instuments that I had to learn to instantly transpose. I still don't know why we don't learn that a C to others is a D to us. Why not just teach C is 1st and 3rd valve. and so forth. My music teacher explained to me a long time ago, but could never figure that out.
-
I was always taught the reason for "transposing instruments" was ease of reading and writing.
This is an old thread, but my position's the same: jazz tune in Bb? Embrace it! Your open high E's a #11 for crying out loud! Tuning down a half step for jazz makes no sense at all...I say save that for the blooze guys (strat in a hat) who need to be manly and use .13's but still do all that out of tune bending they love.
-
The earliest brass bands were Eb-centric (starting in the 1830's), and had Eb soprano keyed bugles, cornopeans (early cornets with Stolzel valves a little later on) in C or Bb wth crooks to lower the pitch to A, quinticlaves usually in Eb, ophicleides usually in Bb, keyed bugles in C with Bb and A crooks, "French" Horns in Eb (instead of F), Bb trombones, Eb basses, Bb basses and EEb basses. Originally Posted by amhabz
The tradition of writing the music in the key of the instrument began prior to the invention of valves, and is actually an 18th century carry-over from the days of "natural" brass. Trumpet players, for example, had trumpets in a number of keys, each of which came with crooks for lowering the pitch. The "tenor" trumpet was the forerunner of the modern valved Bb trumpet, and is so-called because it's double the length of the modern valved instrument and can play an octave lower.
Which is probably 'way more than you ever wanted to know :^)
-
Heh- how many "blues" joints do we all know where the players are usually rock 'n' roll wankers having an easy night out by playing rudimentary 12-bar (often 16-bar, but don't try telling 'em that). Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
I still listen to old Kansas-city-style blues in order to clear the sound and feel of wanking from my brain.
-
My grandson and his friends use a drop D tuning, whatever that is. I know it makes certain chords easier. I told him to learn the chords in concert turning and do it right. A lot of accordions are tuned a bit high, mine is not, A=440. Except for one bank of middle reeds are tuned a little high to give some vibrato for folk music. Normally use the low reeds for jazz.
-
What make of accordion do you play? Does it have double or triple reeds? Originally Posted by amhabz
I ask because I'm trying to get the accordion sound sorted. I've been told that double reeds are more of a French sound, whereas the triple reeds are more suited to Irish music.
-
"Drop D", by the way, is D-A-D-G-B-E.
-
In his later years, George Van Eps tuned a whole step down, G D G C F A D, 7 to 1 to make LH fingering easier. Of course, Van Eps had no problem transposing on the fly.
There is a story that in his six string days, Van Eps would accept the challenge (on the job) of tuning any string up or down a half step and then play the entire set while adjusting his fingering as he played. But then, he was George Van Eps.
-
Hi GS, Dylan did explain to me what and why drop D just can't see the sense. I have a Castlione with organ and other sounds built in, but don't use those, just normal with an amp. It is a professional model with 4 treble reeds and 5 bass reeds. What you are thinking of is called Musette tuning. That's why the 2 middle reeds are turned a little different. French musette (and Irish) have 3 middle reeds, one tuned a little low, one at concert pitch and one tuned high to give it that french sound you're thinking of. Some folk accordions are all turned a bit high, it made the sound stand out with the loud horns and such. But since the 60's most good accordions are tuned to concert pitch, we call the dry tuning. Jazz usually don't sound too good in musette. However, saying that, it fits with Gypsy Jazz.
-
I have friends in Vancouver who play something like "Gypsy Jazz". They have a band called VEJI (Vancouver Ensemble of Jazz Improvisation). Ron Thompson on guitar (if I'm remembering correctly), Blaine Dunaway on 5-string violin/viola, and so on. Not sure if they're still together or not.
-
Aka monster technician. Originally Posted by monk
-
Johnny Smith tuned to dropped D all the time. Also when it comes to strange tunings, unless I missed the post, nobody has mentioned Metheny and the late Joe Beck and their baritone tunings. Originally Posted by amhabz
-
Here's a fun one - Tal Farlow would sometimes tune his A string down an octave, so that any chord that has a R on the A string and a fifth on the low E would now have an interval of a low fifth rather than a fourth...for example, 554554. Originally Posted by Flyin' Brian
-
Yup, those are the guys I'm talking about. Originally Posted by gsmonks
Alternate tuning for creative purposes=cool
Alternate tuning just to make things easier= lazy
We've mentioned Mundell Lowe, right? Drop D player.
-
John McLaughlin dropped his E to A an octave below the 5th for a chord melody version of My Foolish Heart
a quick and easy "7 string"
-
That's an interesting point about 7-string guitars. Eliminates the need for alternate tunings in order to change voicing for getting a characteristic sound you can't get any other way.
Reply With Quote
Recommandations for Hollowbodies for $600 and under?
Today, 05:20 AM in Guitar, Amps & Gizmos