Ibanez working on new Metheny model with CC?

[BigDaddyLoveHandles]

My guess it that it just sold bad .. You have several two pup GB models competing with it .. and then you have the AF55-95's models that come at a cheaper price

If it sold badly, why design a new version, also with one pup?

[jazzkritter]

The truth will set us free in December when the 2022 line up is public. Until then unless we can find a forum member in management at Fujigen (we have ways to make you talk!) we all be in the dark.
But i still say this dreaming is a lot more fun than either the endless improvisation over Cherokee or the threads that turn political
jk

[JazzWhiteBelt]

How many jazz players that play full, hollow-bodied archtops, use the bridge pickup? I would genuinely like to know. I much prefer to just have one in the neck position.

[2bornot2bop]

Wow. 7 pages and nearly 3 years and no guitar. But it got everyone talking.

[wintermoon]

How many jazz players that play full, hollow-bodied archtops, use the bridge pickup? I would genuinely like to know. I much prefer to just have one in the neck position.

I do frequently for rhythm playing, it takes some of the boominess out when comping, but only blended w/the neck pickup.

[jazzkritter]

Invaluable for clean harmonic soloing.

[BigDaddyLoveHandles]

Blues on the bridge!

[icr]

I'm a gear nut but I couldn't give a hoot about any guitar listening to that interview. Wow, what a musician! One of the few interviews where I could really relate to what he was saying. Of course I have his whole discography and love his music.

[Rob MacKillop]

A couple of times already.

[jads57]

Well if Pat needs to go into the Wig Buisness, he'll make for a great role model,
LOL !

[EastwoodMike]

This prototype guitar strikes me as very similar to Barney Kessel's ES-350? (as does the Slaman equivalent for that matter)
That was a Venetian cutaway, Maple/Maple/Maple laminate, with a CC bar pickup,
Not so sure on the dimensions of Pats, but I think the BK es_350 was 17" 3.25" and 25"Scale length & Ebony Fretboard?
Guess I need to hope Bruce Foreman, the current custodian can confirm.

The PM CC seems to have a TOM bridge? The PM2 was 16"and 4.25", 24.75 SL. Anyone know what the PM200 or the anniversary versions were?

I for one can't wait.

[jazzkritter]

Mike:

Not sure about linking a PM Ibanez to Barney’s 350. Pat considered it an improved 175, i think thats its heritage. Theres a PM video on the Ibanez website where he talks about this.
There was never an ‘Anniversary’ version. Showed up for a very short period in name only with no specs ever mentioned.
Careful of the 4 1/2” measure of thickness thats total thickness with bridge. Most Ibanez hollow bodies ship with both a compensated wood and metal TOM bridges. Quality depends on price of course.
Here are the PM200 specs
https://www.ibanez.com/usa/products/.../pm200_01.html
If you have any other PM200 questions let me know, I have one.
Who is Bruce Forman the ‘current custodian’ you mentioned?

jk

[David B]

Who is Bruce Forman the ‘current custodian’ you mentioned?

Jazz guitarist Bruce Forman is the current owner of Barney Kessel's ES-350.

If you listen to episode #245 of the GuitarWank podcast, you can hear Bruce's story of how he recently came to purchase the guitar and his history with Barney. There are lots of videos of Bruce playing the guitar on his Facebook and Instagram pages.

Bruce has just recorded a new trio album reuniting the instruments of the Poll Winners, with John Clayton playing Ray Brown's bass (he is the owner) and Jeff Hamilton playing Shelly Manne's drums.

[EastwoodMike]

Silly me/ Bruce FORMAN

fantastic player, wonderful person.

[EastwoodMike]

@David B
thanks for the corrections-
yeah rosewood ‘board, short scale and bit over 3 7/8” thick. Tad larger than The 175. I knew he had long association with the 175 - but the dims are headed toward the 350 perhaps? I guess the cutaway shape, single PU cc had me thinking. If there was a tobacco burst with unbound f holes…
who knows. All speculation until it’s released right?

[EastwoodMike]

And with Barney’s old amp as well!

[jazzkritter]

Cool! Thanks didn’t know about Forman.

Indeed all speculation until the 2022 catalog in December.

Ibanez uses and has used a similar dimension set and body shape on all their hollow bodies, from Artcore up to the PM200.

[Archie]

Cool! Thanks didn’t know about Forman.

Indeed all speculation until the 2022 catalog in December.

Ibanez uses and has used a similar dimension set and body shape on all their hollow bodies, from Artcore up to the PM200.

It's my opinion that this shape originated with the Ibanez JP-20. Which originated from Joe Pass D'aquisto and thus potentially Borys laminated bodies. The Borys bit is a stretch so thoughts welcome.

It goes 2355 (es-175) to the JP-20 (D'aquisto) to the Artstar series (cheaper Korean Jp-20) and then the artcore/Pm models.

Imo Ibanez bodies from the JP-20 onwards are essentially Joe pass's D'aquisto rip offs.

Which is the ultimate shape of the PM models.

Ibanez 2355
Ibanez FA-100
Ibanez JP-20
Ibanez AF200
Ibanez PM200




I think we can see from these models laid out in chronological order, the genus of all Ibanez 16 bout guitars post the Fa-100 are essentially designed from the JP-20. Ibanez moving away from the full depth of the Gibson ES-175 with the FA-100 then changing over to the D'aquisto shape with the JP-20.

The Artcore models split off somewhat and follow the AF series (shorter neck and scale length) and the PM is essentially a combination of both the AF and JP models.
The PM model even has the JP-20 Tail piece but tries to disassociate with more traditional shaped F-holes, in line with the artcore series.

Greco did the same thing to with their FA series after both themselves and Ibanez stopped copying the Es-175. Both makers along with Joe Pass wanted to move away from the full depth body of the original Gibson.

These are really the two main schools of thought when it comes to 16" guitars. The Gibson ES-175 or the Ibanez/D'aquisto.

[pingu]

also note the JP20 was 25.5 scale
and all the others of the same shape
were/are 24.75

Im hoping a new PM with CC type pu
will be 24.75
Pat seems to like the new guitar

[Archie]

also note the JP20 was 25.5 scale
and all the others of the same shape
were/are 24.75

Im hoping a new PM with CC type pu
will be 24.75
Pat seems to like the new guitar

Yes I mentioned the JP scale length in the post.

I don't see why the PM model would be 25'5 but it would be fun to have a 25".
Gives it more of a unique position in the Ibanez range and thus a good sales point. Although that's what they're going for with the CC.

I find the 24/34 scale on these thinner, smaller, Ibanez bodies, to be a bit dull.
A longer scale would bring back the richer, punchier, acoustic tone, found in the JP-20 and potentially help combat the weight, of a CC pickup and the negative effects, that would have due to added weight.

A 25" scale, and a CC sounds fun.

[2bornot2bop]

Jazz guitarist Bruce Forman is the current owner of Barney Kessel's ES-350.

If you listen to episode #245 of the GuitarWank podcast, you can hear Bruce's story of how he recently came to purchase the guitar and his history with Barney. There are lots of videos of Bruce playing the guitar on his Facebook and Instagram pages.

Bruce has just recorded a new trio album reuniting the instruments of the Poll Winners, with John Clayton playing Ray Brown's bass (he is the owner) and Jeff Hamilton playing Shelly Manne's drums.

Great musicians all around!

[BigDaddyLoveHandles]

Back to the mop. I didn't recognise him at first glance.

[cmajor9]

This thread is pretty old, but let's give it some life by mentioning that this Metheny CC model is visible in the Ibanez photos from NAMM 2024, both in natural and in black. For example, see here:

theGUITARaddict: Ibanez: 2024 (4)

and on the forum, here:

#33

[cfibanez]

This thread is pretty old, but let's give it some life by mentioning that this Metheny CC model is visible in the Ibanez photos from NAMM 2024, both in natural and in black.

The top looks like spruce in those images... or is it still maple?

[MikeTT]

you can see it in this video at ~2mins in: