New Henriksen Forte

**Tal_175** · 05-28-2019, 11:00 AM

Just checked JazzAmp Ten is 23lb's with 10inch speaker and similar cabinet size, so I guess 28 lbs for Forte is pretty good.
But for those who don't need to get louder than Deluxe Reverb levels for gigs and rehearsals I'm not sure weight difference is enough to justify paying more for an imitation amp

28 lbs is already cart territory for anything more than a couple of blocks or even less.
I totally see the appeal for those who really need the twin levels power though. It'll fit in the trunk of a small car at least.

**Little Jay** · 05-28-2019, 01:55 PM

It sounds good to my ear!

Curious to see a schematic of the circuit to see how the preamp was designed. Is it a SS-preamp with a tube somewhere in the signal path or is it really a tube-preamp that delivers a signal to the class D poweramp? I am pretty sure the EQ-section is solid state driven. Mind you, I have nothing against a good designed SS-amp, but I really hope the tube has a real function (preferably the signal goes from the input directly into the first half of the 12ax7 (driver), then come the tone controls, and then the 2nd half of the tube as recovery) and is not just a gimmick to lure poor guitar players into a SS/class D amp - that can be produced very cheapily - and ask a premium price for it.....

The amp is very pricey, so I am afraid they use a $6 tube to give it a tube/boutique flavor to ask premium dough.

Sorry for being so skeptical, but if you see the low prices for comparable Quilter or DV Mark amps (that go for 1/4 - 1/2 the price), it has to be really really good...... and the clips sound good, but I am not sure if they sound $1400 better than a DV Mark Jazz.

**jzucker** · 05-28-2019, 02:17 PM

it's 4x louder than a mark jazz. The mark jazz didn't have enough headroom for a loud gig or rehearsal for me.

Originally Posted by Little Jay

It sounds good to my ear!

Curious to see a schematic of the circuit to see how the preamp was designed. Is it a SS-preamp with a tube somewhere in the signal path or is it really a tube-preamp that delivers a signal to the class D poweramp? I am pretty sure the EQ-section is solid state driven. Mind you, I have nothing against a good designed SS-amp, but I really hope the tube has a real function (preferably the signal goes from the input directly into the first half of the 12ax7 (driver), then come the tone controls, and then the 2nd half of the tube as recovery) and is not just a gimmick to lure poor guitar players into a SS/class D amp - that can be produced very cheapily - and ask a premium price for it.....

The amp is very pricey, so I am afraid they use a $6 tube to give it a tube/boutique flavor to ask premium dough.

Sorry for being so skeptical, but if you see the low prices for comparable Quilter or DV Mark amps (that go for 1/4 - 1/2 the price), it has to be really really good...... and the clips sound good, but I am not sure if they sound $1400 better than a DV Mark Jazz.

**Little Jay** · 05-28-2019, 02:39 PM

Originally Posted by jzucker

it's 4x louder than a mark jazz. The mark jazz didn't have enough headroom for a loud gig or rehearsal for me.

I see your point. I should have added I have no experience with either of those amps I mentioned, so I can’t really judge. Just saying it’s expensive... but perhaps worth it if it can do what no other amp can!

**jzucker** · 05-28-2019, 02:46 PM

Originally Posted by Little Jay

I see your point. I should have added I have no experience with either of those amps I mentioned, so I can’t really judge. Just saying it’s expensive... but perhaps worth it if it can do what no other amp can!

i agree that it's pricey by the way but I think it's kind of in a league of it's own. The fuchs version of the same type of design is $3k +. The milkman product is in the same price range. (Milkman 300W Half and Half Steel Guitar Amplifier – Milkman Sound)

I had one briefly but didn't feel it was implemented properly for an archtop. Even with the bass all the way off, the milkman had a very heavy bottom end.

**jorgemg1984** · 05-28-2019, 09:10 PM

200w is not four times louder than 50w.

**BigDaddyLoveHandles** · 05-28-2019, 10:02 PM

Originally Posted by jorgemg1984

200w is not four times louder than 50w.

True, and there is a definition of "twice as loud" based on physics ... but it doesn't matter! No one would ever say "I need to be three time as loud". It's "I need to hang with this caveman drummer".

**Little Jay** · 05-29-2019, 03:50 AM

Originally Posted by jzucker

i agree that it's pricey by the way but I think it's kind of in a league of it's own. The fuchs version of the same type of design is $3k +. The milkman product is in the same price range. (Milkman 300W Half and Half Steel Guitar Amplifier – Milkman Sound)

I had one briefly but didn't feel it was implemented properly for an archtop. Even with the bass all the way off, the milkman had a very heavy bottom end.

That’s a shame because I really do like the looks of that Milkman! And 28 lbs for a 12” is in the right ballpark as well.

I do find the Forte very interesting though, it does sound good in the clips. I hope the price will go down.

**Little Jay** · 05-29-2019, 04:03 AM

Originally Posted by Tal_175

Yeah 28lbs is not a show stopper. Blu on the other hand is only 12 pounds with the same power rating. Though of course different cabinet and speaker sizes. I wonder how much the tube aspects of Forte contribute to it's weight. I'm guessing they designed it in a way that didn't require them to use heavy transformers.

With a class D poweramp they can omit the output transformer. A 12ax7 needs to have 6.3v heater voltage and some extra amperage delivered from the power transformer, so that’s probably slightly beefier than your standard SS-amp PT, but not by much (if at all). The B+ voltage they put on the 12ax7 is also interesting. It can be as low as 50 volts for the tube to operate if I am right, but in Fender amps it rates from 130 (Deluxe Reverb) to as much as 260 (Twin Reverb). Lower voltages sound a bit more ‘brown’, higher voltages yield more clean sparkle.

**Franz 1997** · 05-29-2019, 05:01 AM

Originally Posted by Little Jay

With a class D poweramp they can omit the output transformer. A 12ax7 needs to have 6.3v heater voltage and some extra amperage delivered from the power transformer, so that’s probably slightly beefier than your standard SS-amp PT, but not by much (if at all). The B+ voltage they put on the 12ax7 is also interesting. It can be as low as 50 volts for the tube to operate if I am right, but in Fender amps it rates from 130 (Deluxe Reverb) to as much as 260 (Twin Reverb). Lower voltages sound a bit more ‘brown’, higher voltages yield more clean sparkle.

The technology has changed a lot...most if not all class D amps have no power transformer, they use a switch mode power supply. Tubes/ valves can be powered to high voltages by something called a charge pump...
it's all different now, which makes amps lighter. Not saying this is what the Forte uses, but it might well do. Evans amps ( and probably many others, Jazzcat might have had one) pioneered high voltage tube pre-amps over 10 years ago, but they didn't sell enough. Maybe the market is more receptive now.

**David B** · 05-29-2019, 05:48 AM

Originally Posted by jzucker

i agree that it's pricey by the way but I think it's kind of in a league of it's own. The fuchs version of the same type of design is $3k +. The milkman product is in the same price range. (Milkman 300W Half and Half Steel Guitar Amplifier – Milkman Sound)

I had one briefly but didn't feel it was implemented properly for an archtop. Even with the bass all the way off, the milkman had a very heavy bottom end.

Actually, I would say thatMilkman's closest equivalent offering to the Forte is their "The Amp" 12" combo. It's their "The Amp" pedal (12AX7 preamp, Class D power, reverb and term) in a 12" combo format. Price is $1299.

The combo: The Amp 12" Combo: Lightweight 50W Guitar Amplifier by Milkman Sound

The pedal: The Amp: 50W Guitar Amplifier pedal by Milkman Sound

**jzucker** · 05-29-2019, 06:05 AM

the thing that makes forte unique is that it does *NOT* use class D. The class D amps impart their own sonic characteristics. Henriksen initially tried a class D power amp (cheaper, lighter, etc) but wasn't satisfied with the results with the HV fender style tube preamp he uses so he eventually used a more conventional, analog SS power amp design.

**BigDaddyLoveHandles** · 05-29-2019, 10:39 AM

Has there been any explanation why the cab is bigger than their other 1x12" combos?

**Greentone** · 05-29-2019, 10:55 AM

I am going to conjecture that an open-back 12" architecture works best with the volume of a cabinet the size of a Deluxe or even an old tweed Tremolux Fender amp.

Those amps really sound fine.

**jzucker** · 05-29-2019, 10:56 AM

Originally Posted by BigDaddyLoveHandles

Has there been any explanation why the cab is bigger than their other 1x12" combos?

I haven't seen any. It's an open back cab so that may factor into it. I would agree that hemp cone speaker would not be my first choice. What speaker did Tim put in his?

**jorgemg1984** · 05-29-2019, 11:44 AM

Originally Posted by BigDaddyLoveHandles

Has there been any explanation why the cab is bigger than their other 1x12" combos?

Bigger circuit? Heat dissipation?

**Tal_175** · 05-29-2019, 11:48 AM

Originally Posted by BigDaddyLoveHandles

Has there been any explanation why the cab is bigger than their other 1x12" combos?

Bigger cab gets deeper bass response. Open back leads to more ambient, less focused projection. Which makes sense since it seems like they are going for blackface type sound.

**Greentone** · 05-29-2019, 12:22 PM

You can handle airflow needed for a single 12ax7 tube in a pedal. Box size isn't too critical, there. In fact, the Forte has an open top for the tube on the control panel. It's good to have an open back for airflow, which the amp has.

I think that the amp design uses other cabinet considerations. An open-back, single-12 design has a rich history of great sounds. It will sound wimpy, however, if the cabinet volume gets smaller than, say, a Fender Princeton Reverb. And, sound will improve as the cabinet gets to the volume of the old tweed Fender Tremolux amp. (That may be the best tone for a single-12, open-back amp.)

**coolvinny** · 05-29-2019, 12:32 PM

Regarding the cabinet size, it's a bit shorter but wider than the Alfresco open-back Henriksen which was designed by Sound Island. I think it's 2" shorter but around 4" wider. I am also curious as to why they went that route; perhaps the tube pre-amp required some additional width or perhaps it was by design.

**Greentone** · 05-29-2019, 12:46 PM

The cabinet size is almost exactly the size of a Fender Tweed Deluxe. 20" x 16" x 10"

Fender is 20" x 16.5" x 9.5"

**va3ux** · 05-29-2019, 07:04 PM

Originally Posted by Greentone

Tubes are as much heating devices as they are diodes and amplification devices. The typical vacuum tube converts 50% of the energy applied to it into electronic "work." (i.e., diode switching or amplification, depending upon the design) The other 50% is emitted as heat into the "room."

Tube devices thus are open box designs.

I had a Traynor Studio Mate tube amp back in the 70's that had a closed speaker compartment. So the presence of tubes doesn't necessarily preclude a closed back design for the speaker compartment.

**kawa** · 05-29-2019, 07:15 PM

**marcwhy** · 05-29-2019, 09:31 PM

Great vid, Kawa!
Mike, like Tim (above) will always sound great regardless of the gear he's using.

**kawa** · 05-29-2019, 09:43 PM

Thank you, marcwhy.

**TLerch** · 05-30-2019, 08:09 PM

Originally Posted by jzucker

I haven't seen any. It's an open back cab so that may factor into it. I would agree that hemp cone speaker would not be my first choice. What speaker did Tim put in his?

Jack, I put a Delta Lite Neo in mine which is a speaker without a ton of lows and a sweet high end that I'm used to. especially with my archtops it tends to eliminate the low mid mush. I think Scott Lerner put in a Lead 80 and he said it helped a lot.
Generally speaking speakers make a big impact on how an amp sounds and its easy to go down a rabbit hole so i try to stick with one of a few that i have found work for me.
all the best
Tim