Roundwound, Flatwound, Groundwound video

[Marty Grass]

This video makes understanding the differences obvious. Seeing this can be helpful.

It's this simple. Groundwounds (Brite Flats and Half Rounds) begin as round wounds. These are ground flat. This makes them round wound against the core and flatwound at the fingertips. This preserves the higher frequencies of the round wounds that the flats lose. There is still lack of complete contact of the core wire, which prevents added dampening that the ribbon wrapping ensures. There are tiny "air pockets" between the core wire and the wrapping. Take a look.

I recall reading that Johnny Smith smoothed down his round wounds after they were strung on his guitar by putting a Coke bottle under the loosened strings and sanding the tops of the strings. That gave me an idea.

I recently got the "Fret Shield" from StewMac that came with a guitar I purchased. Take a look.

Fret Shield | stewmac.com

So I'm thinking that I could smooth out just the exposed parts of newly applied round wounds by putting the Fret Shield down and using fine steel wool or sand paper to smooth out where my finger contact would be. After tightening the wrapped strings, slide the Fret Shield over the fretboard and smooth them out. That should add 1-2 minutes to the process. I'd put a small towel over the pickups to protect them.

Years ago on this very forum I posted that I didn't know why Johnny Smith didn't have finger squeaks when I read that he used round wounds except for low E. There were few responses. The one that stung the most was that he did have finger squeaks. Someone else said they were scrubbed in the control booth. While I'm not obsessed with this topic, I still haven't heard a squeak from him.

Anyway, I'll try smoothing out some round wounds as an experiment.

[Tal_175]

That sounds interesting but why not just use ground wound strings? Based on the description in the video they are exactly what you're trying to achieve, sanded down round wounds.

[neatomic]

depends on type of inner steel core... key! round or hex?...completely diffferent!! anything said about one must be ammended for the other

thomastik has it right once again...a flat soft pure nickel ribbon outer wrap over a thin round core...no space!!! then they add a second pure nickel flat outer wrap!!!..so that the inner core can be thin but the string still somewhat beefy..tho low tension..and no space between wraps..they aren't the old school string masters for nothing!!!...

have fun..experiment...with strings..and then get to the thomastiks!! hah

cheers

[Marty Grass]

The reason for grinding down just the surface with finger contact is to maintain as much mass for magnet field activation and driving the guitar top.

The second reason is that I have a few sets of round wounds lying around.

The truth is I'm pretty satisfied with Chromes, TI flats, LaBella flats, Optima flats, Pyramid flat round cores, Brite Flats and Half Rounds. I enjoy experimenting though.

[neatomic]

yes grinding or "polishing" as they used to call it, is decades old tech...mid 20th century common...but thomastik starting with flat pure nickel ribbon wrap is costly but perfect!!!...it's a cut above in cost and quality..& two wraps of it!!! outlandish!!..thats why they cost $$!!!

fact that thoms also use true vintage round inner steel core besides.. magic

they've been making strings for top classical instruments for decades!! 1919!

cheers

[Marty Grass]

I agree that TIs have the best quality, the best design, and are durable. So others sound very good as well but none better, just less expensive. But even the TIs don't have the sustain and brightness of round wounds.

If there was only a single choice, it would be TIs. I cringe at paying the extra for the George Bensons. Fortunately, I don't like them as much as the standard TI flats.

[neatomic]

yes but thomastiks also make great roundwounds!!! pure nickel on round core..the be-bops!!

can't beat them either! hah

cheers

ps- and don't get me wrong...i love all kinds of strings..brands and gauges...each guitar has its own personality....i try to dial 'em in by whatever means needed

but, if you have a favored jazz guitar, that you want to make better...by all means don't overlook thomastik strings..especially due to their cost..few better values in the long run

[Jabberwocky]

This image was taken and posted by Jonathan Stout. He found this in the case of an old guitar he bought. Try micromesh, Dr. Marty. They go to as fine a grit as 12 000. I wonder about sanding the strings out of round though, the way you are proposing. Won't that affect their vibratory pattern and hence their tone? Won't that "age" the strings and make them sound "dead"?

I have been tempted to try this but I would clamp the ends of the strings to a desk or vise, sand the strings, clean them up, and then string up the guitar. You don't want grit all over your guitar.

[TOMMO]

Grinding or sanding down strings may result in uneven thickness and thus generate intonation problems. don't you think so?

[Tal_175]

Grinding or sanding down strings may result in uneven thickness and thus generate intonation problems. don't you think so?

Good point. Care must be taken to make sure one part of the string doesn't get more "attention" than other parts. One can get good at this in time. But the first attempts might suffer. I'd go all along the length of the string in one motion at a time.
This can actually rejuvenate old strings by removing the thin corroded outside layer and dirt on the surface and revealing the fresh metal. It'll reduce the gauge of course and tension. There will be a dulling effect but that's intentional when we are talking about flattened strings. Even though it won't have the density of a true flat wound, smooth surface will effect how the pick catches the strings.

[Hammertone]

I've been using Labella Rollerwound strings for the past couple of years on my plank guitars. They are made with "Nickel 200", an alloy that is at least 99% nickel. I think they're great!

.012 | .016 | .024W | .032 | .042 | .052 - jazz light
.011 | .014 | .018 | .028W | .38 | .052 - medium
.010 | .013 | .017 | .026W | .36 | .046 - regular
.009 | .011 | .016 | .026W | .36 | .046 - light

From Labella:
"The roller wound technique was first used in the production of violin strings and now has been adopted for the manufacturing of both electric bass and electric guitar strings. This roller wound method compresses and converts the string from a round contour to an oval-shaped profile producing a smoother and more flexible string. Today we are utilizing the same technique on our new Nickel 200 Roller Wound Jazz Guitar set.
The primary ingredient for this new series is the Nickel 200 exterior wrap. This material is softer than the standard nickel- plated steel wire – commonplace in most guitar sets. Our new Nickel 200 Roller Wound Series have a softer touch with a warmer and mellower tone. This new construction offers the performer an opportunity to play with more expression and a wider musical palette of colors."

GHS also makes roller wound strings, with a "pure nickel" wrap, under the "Nickel Rockers" name, but I haven't had a chance to try them out yet. These have been around since the 1960s.
.013 | .017 | .024W | .032 | .042 | .056 - true medium
.012 | .015 | .022W | .028 | .042 | .054 - medium light
.011 | .013 | .018W | .026 | .038 | .050 - light
.011 | .015 | .019 | .028W | .38 | .058 - "low-tuned"
.011 | .014 | .019 | .028W | .40 | .052 - custom medium
.011 | .015 | .018 | .026W | .36 | .050 - medium
.010 | .013 | .018 | .026W | .38 | .050 - custom light
.010 | .013 | .017 | .026W | .36 | .046 - light
.009 | .011 | .016 | .026W | .36 | .046 - extra-light light
.009 | .011 | .016 | .024W | .32 | .042 - extra-light

From GHS:
"A high quality core wire is wrapped with a round, pure nickel cover that is slightly flattened by computer controlled precision rollers in the winding process. The result is a semi-flat string that has a warm but articulate tone, which feels great under the fingers."

Both Labella and GHS are so encumbered by the insulating effects of their owner's combovers and the massive lapels on their orange/brown check polyester suits, that they have been unable to effectively communicate the existence of these strings for at least the past quarter-century.

[Marty Grass]

I have not tried rollerwounds. Interesting. I'm worried about residual squeaks.

I took a set of Half Rounds 11s, smoothed them down a little with 0000 steel wool, and have played them for about 45 minutes. They felt pretty smooth but squeaked a little.

I put the Fret Guard under the strings and rubbed down the strings with a fine Scotch Brite pad. Fewer squeaks now. They have a nice round wound tone, too.

I guess I need to work on technique to get any residual squeakiness out or just accept it.

[Hammertone]

If you are worried about "residual squeaks" then rollerwounds are not for you.
They are much closer to roundwounds than to groundwounds, half-rounds and so forth.
I like them for their feel as well as their tone (nickel wrap).

[neatomic]

ghs is old school house with many great strings...they have rollerwounds and burnished and thin core and big core..many options...pure nickel wrap besides..but all roundwounds...i've used em all..no complaints

their flats are stainless steel on hex core tho..(like every other usa string manufacturer)...not that they are bad...i use the ghs ss flats on basses often...but far cry from thomastik pure nickel-round core flat 2 wrap design & materials!!

cheers