-
I’ve had this old Framus Caravelle thinline guitar laying around for many years now, but I hardly ever played it. Bought it very cheap. It’s a 1977, thinline model, roughly like an ES-330. It’s mostly hollow, but for a block from bridge to tail. The Framus pickups are very much like P90s and were designed by Bill Lawrence (who is actually called Willi Lorenz Stich and designed pickups for Framus). It came with the, for that period, usual Framus multi-laminate bolt-on neck, which always looked a bit strange to me because the head is not angled but straight à la Fender. This is how I bought it more than 10 years ago:
I was always pretty impressed with the craftsmanship and quality of this guitar, but never really bonded with it, mainly because the multi laminate neck gave the guitar a bit of a stiff and lifeless feel.
Since the neck is bolt on, I decided to do a little experiment and I bought a mahogany Asian made neck off eBay for around $40 and replaced the Framus neck with it. I figured if it wouldn’t work out, I could always put the original neck back on.
It was a tedious job to shape the heel of the neck to fit in the Framus neck pocket, but I managed with a Japanese saw and a chisel. Got the angle right! The frets needed some filing, especially the sharp edges, as did the top nut (which was bone to my surprise!). But after that it al feels good.
I also replaced the tremolo with a simple generic tailpiece.
Here’s the result:
Couldn’t resist putting a Framus decal on it:
And here’s how it sounds with the new neck. I am pleased! I like the sound and playability is great. The guitar is very light, even lighter than my ES-125.
-
11-09-2018 06:21 AM
-
Very nice.
You did a fine job and it sounds great.
Sweet playing too.
Enjoy!
-
Thanks Drumbler!
I was inspired by seeing a Framus Billy Lorento guitar:
My Caravelle is mostly a simpler version of the Billy Lorento model, that featured a much nicer neck (even with the open book headstock design) but the same body and pickups. And since I am a fan of mahogany necks, which are available for not too much $$ on ebay (I checked scale of course), this quickly lead me to the idea of changing the neck. I had prosponed that for several years because I feared I wouldn’t be able to shape the heel to fit correctly in the neck pocket, especially with the correct angle. But I took a deep breath and tedious cutting with a Japanese saw and a chisel worked out well!
-
That Caravelle looks and sounds great! I have a ‘68 BL-15 which is very similar to your Caravelle except no vibrato and different single coil pickups, although my pickups may be same guts under a different cover. Mine sounds similar to yours, but the pickups are extremely microphonic. How microphonic are yours when you tap on the wood top?
The BL-15 has a much different voice than my other guitars, so I’ll keep it around. I’m really impressed with the pickups other than the microphonics, so I plan to pot them in paraffin soon. I’ll practice my potting skills on junk pickup first, then the bridge pickup, then if all goes well I’ll do the neck pickup. I’ll post more info about mine after more discussion about yours.
I’ve never had a guitar with a bass control (unless it was in a preamp). The BL-15 pickups have a lot of bass, so it’s nice to be able to roll it off a bit from the guitar. I found a Framus schematic for one of their recent guitars with a bass control, and assume our controls are pretty much the same. I can post that later, when I post my photos.
-
Nice job! Can we see a pic of the back, to see the neck wood and your joint?
-
Originally Posted by KirkP
My pickups are not microphonic at all.....
Does yours have these pickups:
I owned an Atlantic with those pickups and they are different then the ones in mine. The Atlantic was almost unusable on stage because of feedback. Potting might help indeed!
-
Originally Posted by Woody Sound
I didn’t take pics of the shaped heel, sorry. I’ll try to remember to do so next time I take it off. But I removed enough wood and finish to confirm it’s a solid wood neck (most probably with the headstock glued on in a scarf joint fashion).
There you go:
I would have liked to see the edges of my lumberjack cutting a bit neater, but unfortunately the poly finish is hard and brittle like glass and chipped easily. But all in all it’s not too bad for an amateur with just a hacksaw and a chisel I think ;-)Last edited by Little Jay; 12-10-2018 at 10:33 AM.
-
Originally Posted by Little Jay
Lindy Fralin Potting pickups with paraffin. | stewmac.com
The reconstituted Framus company produced a guitar with a bass knob around 2006. I found their schematic for it:
I’m guessing ours is similar. The bass cut circuit is simply a capacitor in series with the hot side of the pickups shunted with a pot. When the pot is full up it shorts the cap and you hear the natural tone of the pickup. I start with the bass pot full up and only dial it back if I need a thinner tone.
The treble cut circuit is a little unusual as it’s wired after the volume pot instead of before. These days that’s often called 50’s-style since early Les Pauls were wired that way.
My pots and switch are a little scratchy. I’ll see if I can clear that up by flowing a tiny amount contact cleaner in the switch and cleaner/lubricator to the pot through the top. Seems like they would be very difficult to remove and replace through that f-hole on the other side of the center block, so I’d like to avoid that.
Does your guitar have a label under the f-hole? Mine has model, serial, inspector, and inspection date. Will provide my photos later.Last edited by KirkP; 11-09-2018 at 04:39 PM.
-
Originally Posted by Little Jay
-
Originally Posted by KirkP
But the pickup cutouts are large enough to work through. And my Caravelle doesn’t have a center block, just a narrow block from bridge to tail, so it’s almost fully hollow.
So no label either. But the original neck has 77F stamped on the back of the headstock.
Thanks for that schematic!
-
Well done! The guitar looks nice and sounds great. Kudos!
-
Originally Posted by citizenk74
-
Originally Posted by Little Jay
When I bought mine it sounded horrible, but the neck was at the wrong angle and the bridge was set very low to get the action right, resulting in insufficient break angle over the bridge to keep those roller bridges from rattling. It was corrected by shimming the neck pocket and raising the bridge. Instant neck reset! I need to loosen the truss rod just a smidge to remove some fret buzz, but otherwise I think the original laminated neck will work for me.
-
Yes, bolt on necks do have some advances over set necks! (Although I generally prefer a set neck for jazz guitars.... might be just an idea in my head though.)
I might experiment with a shim, the bridge is now almost at its lowest, so I think it can use a little bit more of an angle indeed. I keep a stack of paper thin cedar wood shims that I got from a cigar smoking friend - they come out of cigar boxes ;-) (To give a nice smell? Or to light the cigars with? No clue.)
-
I opened the guitar today and re-routed the electronics, following Kirk P’s schematic. To no prevail: funny enough it works just the same as before! The bass-pot only had an ever so slightly effect, I don’t really notice any bass increase or decrease (maybe the little capacitor is leaking or non-functional?). I will open her up again sometime and just do a 50ies wiring with 1 tone and 1 volume, my favorite!
Framus used pretty good quality electronics I must say:
And the classic stick-your-phone-in-there shot:
-
Those photos are very helpful. Is it difficult to reinstall? Having the three pots on a metal strip should make things easier than I expected.
The effect of my bass pot isn’t dramatic, but it’s very audible. It’s not that critical though, since it’s rare to need to adjust the bass level while performing. If I disabled it I’d try to think of some other function for the pot. One thought would be to make it a second tone control in parallel with the normal one with a different capacitor. Different capacitors give you a different treble rolloff curve. Or a switch could be installed there to switch different caps in the treble pot.
I’ll try to post my pix soon.Last edited by KirkP; 11-10-2018 at 02:53 PM.
-
Originally Posted by KirkP
The jack input is the most difficult. I first push an old low E string from outside into the jack-opening with the ball end first and fish that out through the pickup hole. Then I tie a washer ring and a wire to the ball end. The washer ring has to be bigger than the jack opening. I use the E-string to pull the jack input back in position and then the wire to retrieve the washer string back out thru the pickup cavities. Easy peasy ;-)
Originally Posted by KirkP
-
For the jack, I also use an old string, but I put the other end through the input hole, pull it into place, and then just pull harder to get the string out. I find that the partially unwrapped coils provide enough strength to get the jack into place, but it can then be pulled completely through. I usually use a B string, but any will work.
-
Nice job. The guitar looks and sounds great. I have an old Framus Missouri from about 1966. Mine has the same type of multi-laminated bolt-on neck that yours had, except that it has an angled headstock like most guitars. I actually like the feel of the neck and it has been very stable during the 45 years that I have owned it. The action is unbelievably comfortable. It has a laminated spruce top and mahogany back and sides, with a tapered body depth (thin at the upper bout and wide in the lower bout). It’s fully acoustic and sounds great. These old Framus guitars are cool and known for their excellent playability. I’m sure they can be picked up at bargain prices.
Keith
-
Nicely done. But PLEASE replace that utter POS Furutama cheapie tailpiece with a proper German tailpiece. Norbert usually has a few old Framus tailpieces that would do the job - you should get in touch with him (see attached) at Musikkeller Dorsten - a lot closer than Toronto. Not cheap, but worth it, IMO. Here:
Musikkeller || einzelteile
Or find an ABM 1266 - maybe Norbert has one. Not cheap, but they do come up on ebay.de once in awhile. I'd sell you one from Canada (I have over 20 of them here) but it's probably not worth the shipping/tax headache to The Netherlands.
...or maybe it is!Last edited by Hammertone; 07-07-2020 at 10:34 AM.
-
Originally Posted by Hammertone
Musikkeller is the right place to start, I already checked ;-)
-
I still have this laying around:
It’s a Framus vibrato, bought off ebay about 10 years ago. They are pretty expensive now. I have put it on the Caravelle before (worked great, very good vibrato system) and also on my ‘76 Missouri. I then had the Missouri tailpiece - just like that Billy Lorento tailpiece from Musikkeller - on the Caravelle:
I am hesitating if I shall use the vibrato again, for some reason I prefer the simplicity of a fixed tailpiece on a jazzguitar. But a Framus vibrato would be the most authentic on this guitar. And I don’t have any vibrato guitars at the moment (besides an old Strat). And if I have a jazz gig I probably take my ES-125 anyway. Hmmmm, choices, choices..... ;-)
-
I see one up for auction tonight but having trouble finding much about their values and background on them.
Anyone know much about the vintage ones?
-
-
Attila Zoller worked with Framus on the introduction of the "Attila Zoller" model in 1958. These were built at Framus by Richard Mueller, a highly trained luthier/employee who made instruments for Framus endorsers, among his other duties at Framus. The original versions of the "Attila Zoller Model" guitar were essentially versions of the Framus "5/160 De Luxe 60" and "5/162 De Luxe 62", but with the neck specifications based on Zoller's request. These were introduced in '58 and were made into the early '60s. Framus subsequently made a few higher-production versions of the "AZ-10" between the early '60s and its bankruptcy in '75. Unlike most post-50s Framus archtops, these are not garbage.
Attila Zoller Model and AZ-10 guitars may or may not have have solid carved, solid pressed, or laminated spruce tops. Backs may or may not be solid carved, solid pressed, or laminated maple. The catalogue and PR information is so full of bullshit that it's hard to tell. The guitar in the picture above certainly looks like a later, nicer model, based on its feature set. The pickup and pickguard are not original. The ROKO (Kolb, pre-Schaller) tuners, Teller bridge and ABM tailpiece are all original. Cool guitar. Probably sounds and plays great, but there's only one way to find out, eh?
16" 1920s/30s L5
Yesterday, 08:44 PM in For Sale