Pickups for a 1936 Gibson Black Special #4

[312_JS]

Hello everyone.

I just bought a lovable 1936 Gibson Black Special #4 in an unreal condition.

I'm looking for a set of magnetic pickups for her. Preferably something sounding similar to Charlie Christian, P90 or the AlNiCo V Staple pickup.

The problem is that there is only around 6 mm clearance at the neck position.

I've already sent an email to Pete from Vintage Vibes, but I'm open to suggestions.

Thanks a lot in advance!

[rabbit]

Congratulations!

[wintermoon]

There's a guitar in that pic?

[312_JS]

Congratulations!

Cheers!

There's a guitar in that pic?

You need a new monitor!

[Greentone]

The old 30s L-10 came in black. That guitar looks like a L-50 in L-10 black. Neat guitar. I already know how it sounds. These guitars are only about four pounds--light and responsive. Top three strings have a Martin D-18 type of sonority with a natural reverb. Find every occasion to play those strings between frets three and ten. Yeah!

[Fred Archtop]

Hi,

Here is my '37 L50 black special #4 transformed into an ES-150 by Daniel Slaman. If you want to install a floating PU, 6 mm clearance is very short, but Pete Biltoft might be able to do it for you.



Best.

[312_JS]

The old 30s L-10 came in black. That guitar looks like a L-50 in L-10 black. Neat guitar. I already know how it sounds. These guitars are only about four pounds--light and responsive. Top three strings have a Martin D-18 type of sonority with a natural reverb. Find every occasion to play those strings between frets three and ten. Yeah!

Not just L10s, there were several L models that came in black.
I think my guitar is closer to a L48, but it was called a Black Special #4.

Hi,

Here is my '37 L50 black special #4 transformed into an ES-150 by Daniel Slaman. If you want to install a floating PU, 6 mm clearance is very short, but Pete Biltoft might be able to do it for you.



Best.

I saw your video with that guitar. Cheers.
Pete said that the lowest he can go is 9,5 mm.

[Fred Archtop]

Pete said that the lowest he can go is 9,5 mm.

So, in this case there is not much to do. He is probably the most qualified for CC floating PUs.

Cheers.

[icr]

The McCarty fingerrest pickup is 9.5mm. Another option is this which fits under the bridge.

[Greentone]

Fred Archtop is correct. Those 30s 16" archtops from Gibson have only fingerboard clearance from the top. You can't even slide a DeArmond up there into the neck position, and the DeArmond is a thin pickup.

The way to go is a set in CC pickup, as you can see in Fred's picture. Side bonus: the result sounds divine.

[David B]

I would copy Fred and have a Charlie Christian pickup installed but if you're not prepared to cut the top, the only option that comes to mind is the 'Micro-Stealth' humbucker from Krivo Pickups. At 6.5mm thick, it was designed for archtops such as yours.

[Greentone]

The MicroSheath is 2mm thinner than the DeArmond Rhythm Chief 1000--which is pretty thin, but doesn't fit in the neck position of the 30s Gibson archtops that have no fingerboard elevation.

It looks like the way to go if you don't want to cut a hole in the top.

OTOH, ES-150 guitars were L-50 guitars with a hole cut and the cobalt magnet pickup installed. Those old Gibsons are just begging to become "Charlie Christian" guitars.

[312_JS]

I'm looking at the Krivo MiniHumbucker at the moment.
Krivo Universal Mini-Humbucker Pickup: sounds great on virtually any stringed instrument
The only thing stopping me, is that an excellent gypsy jazz guitarist I know said the Krivo pickup he got was horribly made.

[Jabberwocky]

Nice guitar in that half-shadow!

What are you hoping to achieve with a floating magnetic superthin pickup? The DeArmond 1100 is the gold standard and that one sounds good. But even the DeArmond 1100 is too thick for your L4.

Did you consider a contact microphone like a Schertler Dyn G or AKG 411? The Audio-Technika or Sony lavalier microphone works well.

It might be a futile exercise to spend all that money on the Krivo and get a non-satisfying sound. And it would be hard to sell the Krivo on without taking a haircut. I have zero experience with the Krivo but if Kent Armstrong cannot get a superthin pickup to work satisfactorily, I doubt that anyone else can. Kent Armstrong's 2D microhumbucker is 11/32" thin i.e slighly over 8.73mm. (Dimensions: Length- 2 11/16"; Width- 1 3/16"; Depth: 11/32". Minimum recommended string clearance: approx. 7/16" from guitar top to bottom of strings at the end of the fingerboard, with strings depressed at highest fret. Output: approx. 8K ohms. Bracket width is 2 3/8", brackets are flexible and may be bent in or out to accommodate any fingerboard width.)

I won't try to kludge out a solution. If it is a magnetic pickup tone that I am after, I would just go ahead to buy a guitar with a humbucker or P90 in it. The L4 you have is to be appreciated for the acoustic archtop that it is. And that really means using a mini-condensor microphone like the DPA 4099 or a soundboard contact microphone like the Schertler Dyn G or AKG 411 to amplify it. More likely to get a satisfying sound.

Good luck with your adventure, whatever you choose.

C411 L | High-performance miniature condenser vibration pickup

[Jabberwocky]

I'm looking at the Krivo MiniHumbucker at the moment.
Krivo Universal Mini-Humbucker Pickup: sounds great on virtually any stringed instrument
The only thing stopping me, is that an excellent gypsy jazz guitarist I know said the Krivo pickup he got was horribly made.

$200 minus a penny...That is a big punt.

[archtopeddy]

I have a black '35 L-30 and like your guitar it has too little space between the strings and the top for a top-mount pickup. I installed K&K dual pickups and called it a day. It doesn't sound like a mag pickup but works fine for when I want an amplified sound. I think the only possible option for a mag pickup would be to cut a hole in the top or use a DeArmond on a monkey stick pulled down toward the bridge -- like B.B. King's first "electric" guitar.

[rabbit]

312_JS,

I wish you success with your project.
Success being defined here as you being happy with the result in say, two years.
I acknowledge that it's your instrument to do with as you wish.

After you cut a hole in that arch top, an irreversible move, you will likely regret it.
The instrument will be less valuable in the marketplace, too.
It will never be an authentic vintage electric jazz guitar 'cause it's already an authentic vintage acoustic guitar.

If you are offended I regret that.

[whiskey02]

Why not keep it in its original 82 year old "unreal condition" to enjoy and appreciate it as it was originally intended to be? You already know that your options are quite limited. I strongly urge you to consider leaving it just as you found it, because I suspect that's how you will most enjoy it.

[archtopeddy]

I think Whiskey and Rabbit have good points. At most, I'd do something unobtrusive like the internal adhesive K&K pickups or a monkey on a stick DeArmond (if you can get one to fit).

(With this said, not taking anything away from Fred Archtop's beautiful transformation of the 37 L-50 to an ES-150. This project is whole different thing from just adding a magnetic pickup to the L-50. It's a salute to the historic background to the first black ES-150s, and the transformation was done to perfecto by Fred Archtop and Daniel Slaman -- proper pickup, pickguard, knobs, etc. My hat's off to Fred for this great rendition of Gibson's prototype electric guitar.)

[archtopeddy]

FYI: I just saw on eBay that Lace Sensor has an "ultra-thin" humbucker that's 7 mm thick...

[312_JS]

Lads! I never said I'm going to route the top!

So far, I was able to find or was told about these:

• https://www.krivopickups.com/store/...eat_on_virtually_any_stringed_instrument.html
• sixtus-pickups | Product Page
• Surdo Pickups : Gypsy Pickups
• http://www.nationalguitars.com/prod...NH4fr_MefGZpP0fi7eZI-NJtuGCLKRwufitFOoqLPwWzE
• https://lace-music-products.myshopi...901CI1ebOQAVp94Ty6sP8Jm0zcdBXIm ETSB-4LMcTehmI
• https://www.thomann.de/gb/schaller_...0pEX4LZ0rAmv4Bsi4DZ0Id2xUh3lN2J0X2Mg19 RRXcO44

[icr]

I see Fred Archtop posted his gorgeous black beauty conversion and I had been comparing subtle details to my sunburst conversion. I thought I'd post the picture here also.

[archtopeddy]

Very nice icr!! Which brand CC pickup did you use?

[Fred Archtop]

icr, you've done a wonderful job. Congrats again for that!

[icr]

Very nice icr!! Which brand CC pickup did you use?

I used the CC Pickup from UK as I thought that one looked like the most accurate reproduction. I have nothing to compare it to, however, but it wound up sounding great.

Mine is a 1937 with raised fingerboard and this is a little different from Fred Archtop's, which has a fingerboard flat on the top, more like a real ES-150.

My take on it is both guitars are L-50s with CC pickups and the guitars retain their value as very useable L-50s because this modification was actually possible back then. Neither claims to be a real ES-150; Fred obviously has both and those 'in the know' can clearly see the lack of binding and different tuners on the L-50s.

I preferred working on the L-50, because of its lower price (compared to ES-150 or ES-250) I had no second thoughts about adding the pickup, planing the fingerboard or doing a "California Neck Set" (do they do that in The Hague?) to turn it into something I'm actually going to play, rather than "collect."