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So I normally use roundwound strings. Seems to go against the grain to use flatwounds on acoustic built archtops. I have tried them a few times in the distance past but maybe never gave them much chance. So today I decide to put some chromes 12-52 on the Hollenbeck. My thinking is this guitar really rings and at times the acoustic sound is almost so much the amp picks up the sound a bit harsher ( if that makes sense.)
I put these on an first notice a smoother sound not quite the ringing but still punch. What I am really notice though is the single line sound and chord melody just seems to be better. I am finding I am ever so quicker and smoother with my fingers with the flatwounds. I am liking the sound and feeling on the fingers and I need all the help I can get.
Now for pure acoustic rhythm the roundwounds do produce more sound and better but on the whole this has me rethinking my string choice. Funny because I do a lot of repair and put flatwounds on many of those guitars but never quite made the connect until I gave them a longer try on my own. I also have to say the Daddario's are spot on with the intonation the QC seems right up to specs.
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09-03-2018 04:58 PM
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Flats are a specific sound, and yes, an electric guitar sound, mostly (though I think the Beatles used flats on their acousins on early albums!)
BUT that specific sound, if you like it (and it's a great sound) ONLY flats will get it.
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After a few years of trials, I now use 12-52 Chromes on my 2 - L-7 acoustics, and my L-5 WesMo..........
Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
I use them as much for the sounds I get from them on each guitar, as for the sounds I don't get from them on each guitar ('string noise').
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I like D'Addario strings a lot. I mostly use pure nickel rouindwounds, but I put chromes on some guitars. I currently have chromes on my Benedetto Bambino, and it's certainly a different sound. It's much smoother, less treble, maybe fuller. I still like pure nickel rounds, but sometimes you need the sound of flats. The Bambino is certainly not an acoustic guitar, and that's why I put the chromes on it and not something else. I figure if you're going to have multiple guitars, you should take advantage of multiple sound profiles. I really need to sell some of mine to finance new acquisitions, though.
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yes beatles had pure nickel flats ala thomastik and pyramids on their j160-e's...tho the gibson j160-e (which both lennon and harrison each had) was really aimed at electric..had a laminate top...and electronics directly mounted Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
dm..you've made the jump from rounds to chrome flats...they are the most roundwound like of the flats...next time try pure nickel thoms or pyramids...big difference in tone and feel
cheers
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That’s how it is for me and I suspect many others with more than a few instruments—you move away from the standardizing or perhaps canonizing of stringsets to availing yourself to greater variety in sound and fretting-feel via multiple instruments. When I had only one jazzbox, it was all about flats—until I heard some lovely ringing roundwounds and felt I had to shift to rounds for as long as the set lasted. But I’d miss the flatwound glide and thunk at the same time. Originally Posted by sgosnell
Now different instruments can have different sets—nickel rounds, chromes, monel, soft brass—and I can let their sound and feel influence what and how I play. (Not unlike having multiple flattop guitars dedicated to different tunings.) And all are within reach as well as in rotation.
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My problem with flats on my archtops is their diminished definition on the lower strings which makes them not so suitable for my group playing - let's face it : being part of the rhythm section and often the only harmony instrument in the band you are comping most of the time and you need to outline the chords in a way that doesn't get in the way of the other players but still carry the tune and drive the band. That distinctive "chink chink" just comes a lot easier and nicer with roundwounds, IMHO. From a soloist's point of view it's a different story of course. Joe Pass used medium gauge flats and had a signature sound whether he used his fingers or a pick but when you listen to Jim Hall's recordings with Art Farmer, Paul Desmond, Bill Evans or early on with Jimmy Guiffre it's quite obvious that he used roundwounds : his tone was still kind of dark but had good sustain, his chords were complex but each voice distinct and he almost always had an acoustic edge to his tone. I doubt that he could have achieved this with flats...
My Super-400 and my Victor Baker are strung with medium half-rounds - an ok compromise - but on my newly acquired Trenier I use Thomastik rounds just BECAUSE I want more definition and sustain. For a darker tone I use the tone control, a different pick and adjust my picking accordingly... YMMV
For playing around the house and your personal enjoyment the choice is yours alone but say you have a gig with a big band and you have to play straight 4's all night then it's definitely roundwounds you need !
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String choice definitely depends on the instrument and its intended use. Big band rhythm and soloing ala Kenny Burrell are not the same thing, and have a different sound and feel. They make lots of different types of strings because there are lots of different types of players and playing situations. Everyone can vote with their wallets.
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???
jim hall used light flats!!! & furthermore used a van eps string damper to curtail any string noise..he used a light touch
he got nice high end tone cause he used a gibson ga-50 amp that had 2 alnico speakers..a 12" and a bright 8"...very hi-fi
cheers
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I have tried rounds, both nickel and bronze with all of my acoustic guitars. I have also tried stainless flatwounds.
My choice by far is pure nickel, round core flats. I like the smooth, even tone. I like the way flats feel to my fingers. It suits my style. YMMV.
BTW, I once asked Jim Hall about his string choice. He told me that he used 11 gauge flats. Herb Ellis told me that he used 13 gauge flats, the same as Joe Pass. Wes Montgomery used 14 Gauge flats. 11's seem too light for me and 14's seem too heavy. 12's and 13's work great.
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+1 Originally Posted by Stringswinger
I agree with everything said here.
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I'm digging flat these days, but the bottom end on TI's sounds a bit flubby to me when not plugged in.
On a lark I happened into a set of Curt Mangan flats for my old L7 and that sound has worked out really great.
I'm gonna get some more of those for sure!
I'm going to try out chromes again next time I change out strings on one guitar or another. I admit it may take a year or two . . .
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.....Sorry, but didn't JH and others who used the VE string damper use it to eliminate feedback ??..... Originally Posted by neatomic
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Originally Posted by Dennis D
great overview from scotty moores site
"Scotty's 63 Super 400 CES, like the guitars of many jazz players of the 60's, featured a string damper which helped eliminate feedback This style of string damper is from a design by the famous Jazz guitarist George Van Eps and used by other players of note like Herb Ellis. The damper, mounted on a plate which replaced the original trussrod cover was designed to damp down unwanted open string overtones. This helped achieve a better tonal balance between open and fretted notes, whilst reducing the electro-acoustic guitar's susceptibility to feedback. Van Eps dampers were available as a guitar accessory throughout the fifties although Gibson did market them for a short period, which linked them with the company name. "
cheers
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.......Yup.......but that still doesn't support your contention that VE dampers were used because they reduced 'string noise', unless you're defining string noise as feedback.....If JH and GVE were almost always using their instruments acoustically, and still saw the benefit of using VE dampers, ok. But they rarely played them acoustically, and once they plugged in, feedback was the issue, not reducing acoustic overtones. Originally Posted by neatomic
And if as you say JH was already using flats, there wasn't much if any unwanted string noise to get rid of, but there sure was feedback ' noise ' once plugged in.
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The string noise the Van Eps damper was designed to eliminate is the sympathetic vibration of open strings caused by the vibration of other fretted strings, induced through the vibration of the top and neck. I get it on some guitars, and it can be really annoying. I haven't tried the Van Eps damper, mostly because they're unavailable, but there are other methods. Jennifer Batten sells a damper, and people use hair scrunchies and other similar things. Sometimes just damping the strings between the nut and tuners helps, and I've used magnets for this. A narrow strip of loop velcro under the strings, up against the nut, also can work. Noise means different things to different people.
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That's a great shot of Jim in action. We miss him. Originally Posted by neatomic
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yes i do define string noise as any problematic string overtones that occur between the nut and the tuning pegs...whether they lead to actual feedback or are otherwise bothersome Originally Posted by Dennis D
cheers
ps- leo fender addressed the overtone problem (& more) on solidbody guitars (with No feedback) by using string trees...other makers used string bars...Last edited by neatomic; 09-04-2018 at 03:38 PM.
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Jennifer Batten sells a string damper. String Dampers – Jennifer Batten
Here's a cheapo damper.
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I use light flats as well (these days D'Addario Chrome 10's) and then tune them down so it's even looser. Not for everyone but it works for me. Originally Posted by neatomic
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I have recently Purchased a Squier x 155 arc top and am in the process of trying diffrent strings on it. The first set now on the guitar are Daddario XL nickel round wound 11-49 the next set i have to put on are Daddario XL Chromes Flat wound 11-50 then i probly will try Daddario XL steel round wounds 11 . This is the only way I know of to find which strings will sound the best on a Guitar that I Have just got. Being that the previous owner didn't play it much and has no input on the best strings he found for the sound. So if any one has previous experiance with this Type of arch top.also Dermond. let me know
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You might want to try RotoSound RS200 Monel Flatwound, .012 - .052. I have them on a laminated Ibanez archtop. I use roundwound strings on my other instruments, but flatwound strings seem to sound best on that one. Originally Posted by JaxJaxon
I also have a DeArmond X155, but it’s been in the closet for a while. Maybe I should slap some Rotosounds on it.
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jax, as i've writ before, dearmond/squier maple top is very live acoustically...(& of course, depends on what kinda tone you want)...but...some nice pure nickel wraps with round inner cores work very nicely...don't even have to get too heavy...10's even..try the dr pure blues 10 or 11's...they balance the acoustic and amplified tone nicely...
thomastik and pyramid also make this type of string..but dr is usa made and more budget friendly... i.e. guitar center stocks them!!
cheers
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I have never had those short lengths of string ring out while playing. The strings between the bridge and tailpiece yes, but that's a far longer set of strings. Originally Posted by neatomic
Leo used string trees to compensate for the headstock not being angled, not to damp strings ringing.ps- leo fender addressed the overtone problem (& more) on solidbody guitars (with No feedback) by using string trees...other makers used string bars...
Van Eps designed his damper to keep open strings from ringing out (so you don't have an open E ringing against your E flat major 7) which also reduces the likelihood of those strings feeding back when amplified. Jim Hall even used one on his Les Paul- probably not for feedback but just for the open strings. However, after the ES-175 was retired he doesn't seem to have used a damper on his D'Aquisto or Sadowsky.
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The Fender string tees are designed to change the string angle behind the nut, but they can also affect open string ringing. I solved a ringing issue on one guitar by installing a String Butler, which did sort of the same thing as tees, not exactly but similar. That was accidental, because I installed the butler for other reasons, and it was a side effect. The strings between the tuner and nut, and between the bridge and tailpiece, do affect the ringing of open strings. You can add weight or muting material there and affect the ringing. I have a guitar on which the G string, played at the Ab position, causes the B string to ring loudly if not muted. That can be stopped by a Van Eps mute, by putting something like Velcro under the strings against the nut, or by putting some magnets on the G and B strings between the nut and the tuners. On some guitars, muting the strings between the tailpiece and bridge works better. It depends on the resonances of each guitar. When a note is played, the top vibrates and induces vibration into strings, and those vibrations may or may not be intensified by the resonances of the guitar. Some will be damped, some will be amplified. The Van Eps style damper prevents any ringing at any frequency on any string, but it's expensive and difficult to install. The best method of prevention depends on the guitar and the player. I use whatever works for me.
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