Flatwound Strings vs Roundwound Strings

[ThatRhythmMan]

jax, as i've writ before, dearmond/squier maple top is very live acoustically...(& of course, depends on what kinda tone you want)...but...some nice pure nickel wraps with round inner cores work very nicely...don't even have to get too heavy...10's even..try the dr pure blues 10 or 11's...they balance the acoustic and amplified tone nicely...

thomastik and pyramid also make this type of string..but dr is usa made and more budget friendly... i.e. guitar center stocks them!!


cheers

Have you had any trouble with DR strings being corroded, new, straight out of the package? I’ve had a lot of trouble with that. Also, I have never been able to get a response from DR when I’ve emailed them about this issue.

[neatomic]

Have you had any trouble with DR strings being corroded, new, straight out of the package? I’ve had a lot of trouble with that. Also, I have never been able to get a response from DR when I’ve emailed them about this issue.

yes..i have had corrosion issues with drs...i even stopped using them for awhile..but they are such a good string otherwise...they've even reworked the packaging, but i still have gotten bad strings...shame..but so much cheaper (stateside) than comparable thoms or pyramids that its still worth it

cheers

[neatomic]

Leo used string trees to compensate for the headstock not being angled, not to damp strings ringing.

Van Eps designed his damper to keep open strings from ringing out (so you don't have an open E ringing against your E flat major 7) which also reduces the likelihood of those strings feeding back when amplified. Jim Hall even used one on his Les Paul- probably not for feedback but just for the open strings. However, after the ES-175 was retired he doesn't seem to have used a damper on his D'Aquisto or Sadowsky.

the angle between the nut and the tuners is exactly what causes the ringing!!!

but also why i was carefeul to write-

"leo fender addressed the overtone problem (& more) on solidbody guitars (with No feedback) by using string trees"

also jim hall used the 175 with damper from mid 50's to early 70's... a good run..and the dampers were probably difficult to find by the mid 70's!!....headstock angle might be different as well on his later guitars


cheers

[Moonray]

I can’t speak to DR flats but I can confirm that the DR
pure blues set comes in a sealed plastic envelope inside
the usual box.
BTW the DR blues sets are pure nickel wound around a round
core.
I tried their 10-46 set and found them to possess a better
magnetic quality than any other pure nickel wound string
I have played....IOW’s they’re loud but warm, not brash.
I got another set to make sure it wasn’t a fluke.
The 2nd set was as good as the first.
The one unusual feature I found is although these are 10’s
the tension and tone is more like an 11 set.... and that’s fine
for me.

These strings are a revelation to me and I’m switching to
these.

Anyone in doubt should take a look at DR’s website to see if
the corrosion intercept packaging is used across all their
different lines.

[Hammertone]

Have you had any trouble with DR strings being corroded, new, straight out of the package? I’ve had a lot of trouble with that. Also, I have never been able to get a response from DR when I’ve emailed them about this issue.

Cenveo, the company that provides the paper sleeves used for strings screwed up royally with several string companies by changing its specifications for these sleeves at some point. Their newer sleeves actually promoted string corrosion instead of preventing it. They were sued by Markley, GHS and DR (maybe some others as well), but DR really got screwed because of the problem.

Quick overview info:
Lawsuit over corroded guitar strings
DR String Corrosion Lawsuit Article - The Acoustic Guitar Forum

DR is a dinky little company and I suspect was ill-equipped to deal with inquiries, return/replacements, and other customer service needs that were the result of all of this. I think they tried to do a replacement program with their retailers, but I'm sure there's still plenty of old stock out there among the retailers that has these defective sleeves.

[neatomic]

that paper sleeve issue was years ago..they updated to sealed plastic long ago..but i actually have still gotten a corroded string in that new packaging anyway, so...i still like the pure blues tho!! old school vintage style string...

as per "dinky company"..haha..well it's owned by mark dronge..son of the guild guitars founder al dronge..and they have a full line of guitar and bass strings, and are sold in guitar center nationwide in the usa....so they must be doin something right! there right next to the biggies d'addario, martin, etc etc


cheers

[Hammertone]

that paper sleeve issue was years ago..they updated to sealed plastic long ago..but i actually have still gotten a corroded string in that new packaging anyway, so...i still like the pure blues tho!! old school vintage style string...

I read about it in Mid-2015. There were many affected DR/Markley/GHS string packs still in the retail chain at that point.

...as per "dinky company"..haha..well it's owned by mark dronge..son of the guild guitars founder al dronge..and they have a full line of guitar and bass strings, and are sold in guitar center nationwide in the usa....so they must be doin something right! there right next to the biggies d'addario, martin, etc etc
cheers

Not sure of their market share numbers, but they are small players in the string industry.
I like some of their strings a lot.

[neatomic]

after d'addario, oem maker supreme, they are all small players!..hah

but i get ya

cheers

[ThatRhythmMan]

Cenveo, the company that provides the paper sleeves used for strings screwed up royally with several string companies by changing its specifications for these sleeves at some point. Their newer sleeves actually promoted string corrosion instead of preventing it. They were sued by Markley, GHS and DR (maybe some others as well), but DR really got screwed because of the problem.

Quick overview info:
Lawsuit over corroded guitar strings
DR String Corrosion Lawsuit Article - The Acoustic Guitar Forum

DR is a dinky little company and I suspect was ill-equipped to deal with inquiries, return/replacements, and other customer service needs that were the result of all of this. I think they tried to do a replacement program with their retailers, but I'm sure there's still plenty of old stock out there among the retailers that has these defective sleeves.

I had not heard about this. At least there is an explanation. Unfortunately, I had bought about ten sets of DR Flats that must have been in these batches. While I’m glad to hear that things should be better now, I’m hesitant to buy anymore after getting burned on ten packs and getting no response from the company.

[jzwrkr]

My problem with flats on my archtops is their diminished definition on the lower strings which makes them not so suitable for my group playing - let's face it : being part of the rhythm section and often the only harmony instrument in the band you are comping most of the time and you need to outline the chords in a way that doesn't get in the way of the other players but still carry the tune and drive the band. That distinctive "chink chink" just comes a lot easier and nicer with roundwounds, IMHO. From a soloist's point of view it's a different story of course. Joe Pass used medium gauge flats and had a signature sound whether he used his fingers or a pick but when you listen to Jim Hall's recordings with Art Farmer, Paul Desmond, Bill Evans or early on with Jimmy Guiffre it's quite obvious that he used roundwounds : his tone was still kind of dark but had good sustain, his chords were complex but each voice distinct and he almost always had an acoustic edge to his tone. I doubt that he could have achieved this with flats...
My Super-400 and my Victor Baker are strung with medium half-rounds - an ok compromise - but on my newly acquired Trenier I use Thomastik rounds just BECAUSE I want more definition and sustain. For a darker tone I use the tone control, a different pick and adjust my picking accordingly... YMMV
For playing around the house and your personal enjoyment the choice is yours alone but say you have a gig with a big band and you have to play straight 4's all night then it's definitely roundwounds you need !

I totally agree with that. I thought i was the only one feeling this way. It is not about whether they are better or worse. It is the musical situation you are in . Great to play solo, duo and maybe settings, but i play in a quintet where frequencies of other instruments really get in the way and the lower strings of the flats almost die or the notes loose definition. I usually claim that to other musicians/ guitarists around me. Glad to hear from someone who thinks alike..


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[JPP65]

I've tried flats a few times in the past and just can't get into the wound third (because apparently, I can't not bend strings.)
I have kind of settled for Elixer Polywebs 11's.
Pyramid did a set for Bob Weir (The Grateful Dead/Dead & Co.) in 12's that looks super interesting!

Imgur: The magic of the Internet

[Greentone]

I have used TI Swing flats on my archtops for many years. They get "the" sound.

However, if I am playing a carved acoustic electric archtop, and I want to exploit the qualities of the guitar, I am these days preferring TI Bebop 13-53 rounds.

[neatomic]

My acoustic L5 was too zingy, and had too ringing overtones for my taste with round wounds. I tried chromes (my string of choice for electrics), and it was lifeless. On a whim, I tried the RotoSound monel flats. Bingo. Sounds the way I want it to. The only issue is that they only come in 12s. They sound great; they're just lighter feeling than I'm used to on an acoustic box.

monel is close to pure nickel...if you like the roto's, but are not crazy about the single 12 set, try thomastik or pyramid pure nickel flats...similarly toned...yet with more gauge options

chromes are stainless steel flats...way different from pure nickel and monel flats


cheers

[Greentone]

Yes, steel is VERY different from nickel. You want nickel.

[KirkP]

jim hall used light flats!!! & furthermore used a van eps string damper to curtail any string noise..he used a light touch

he got nice high end tone cause he used a gibson ga-50 amp that had 2 alnico speakers..a 12" and a bright 8"...very hi-fi
Attachment 55744

Jim Hall only used the string damper and the GA-50 amp fairly early in his career. In the photo you posted the string damper is disabled. Here’s a photo of Jim with the damper enabled.

I can imagine him raising and lowering the damper during performances (perhaps preferring one setting for comping and another for solos?) but that’s pure speculation. In any case he seems to have had no use for them after the 1960s.

[christianm77]

.....Sorry, but didn't JH and others who used the VE string damper use it to eliminate feedback ??.....

I imagined they’d use it to stop ringing open strings as well, which can be a problem when you use a floating hand position.