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Thank you, Vinny. You are a true gentleman. Will be nice to fire up the old Fender GB. Been sitting idle for a few years.
Originally Posted by vinnyv1k
Robert when you are ready for a great mint VSB L4CES Mahogany email me. I will mail you those tubes in a couple days.
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08-04-2020 10:23 PM
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Thanks Joe! I’m doing well (thanks to the big guy upstairs). I’m glad you enjoy your ES-165. Originally Posted by Max405
Pardon if I’ve told this story several times before... but, about 20 years ago, I studied with a great jazz guitarist (Donald Better—Cleveland Institute of Music) who would always compliment my ES-165 at every lesson. He’d get this impressed look on his face and say, “wow, that’s the best sounding 175 I’ve ever heard”. He said that many times.
I think Gibson hit it out of the park with the Herb Ellis model. Mine was a 90s model with an inset ‘57 Classic. The gold hardware just adds a touch of class. I foolishly sold it. But it was to help out a friend of my high-school-aged son high school kid who was heading off to Berkeley to study jazz guitar. He loved it and one day, close to graduation, he asked if I would sell it to him. How could I say no?! He was a very talented kid and committing himself to real study to become a great guitarist. Sold it to him cheap and smiled the whole time. But, I do miss the clear ringing yet woody tone that guitar had. In a word, it sounded Sweet.
My playing skills pale in comparison to yours Joe. But, my love of these classic Gibson archtop electrics is right up there with yours. I guess, that makes us (and our friends here) brothers of sorts.
Until I can swing for an L-4, I’ve been enjoying my Indonesian made Ibanez LGB-30. These guitars are beautiful but overpriced due to the crap hardware and electronics. I scrapped and redid everything important (new tuners, nut, Seth Lover pickups, braided wire, Switchcraft switch and jack, CTS pots, Sprague orange drop caps, and correctly radiused bridge. With these upgrades, this little guy is my temporary L-4. I’ve really found that the cheaper and mid-line guitars coming out of asian factories are decent guitars hobbled with bad setups and cheap hardware.
Loving life and trying to keep improving after a health scare earlier this year. Not fully out of the woods, but moving the right direction.
Have a great evening, buddy!
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"The L-4 CES is the last guitar on my bucket list. It was the first Gibson guitar I ever played (back in 1976)"
Is that year a typo? The only factory electric L-4s back then were the short run 50s/60s CC pickup equipped models and they weren't called CES.
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I don’t think it’s a typo. I was in the 8th grade during ‘75 and ‘76 and after school some days I would walk to a Guitar Shop on the main drag (El Camino Real) in Menlo Park, CA. The shop was called Guitars Unlimited and after a few visits trying an SG and a Les Paul, I came across this gorgeous Wine Red carved top Gibson and it sounded so rich and woody. It had parallelogram inlays and gold hardware and it fed back like a son of a gun. I’m sure it had a pointy cutaway and two pickups. No idea what year the guitar was. I didn’t know anything about hollow guitars at the time and it wasn’t until years later that I put the pieces together to figure out it was an L-4. Whether CES in the the model name or not, it certainly was a Cutaway Electric Spanish. Maybe a special run? But, it was glorious. Originally Posted by wintermoon
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Studying and collecting this stuff closely for 35 + yrs I've never heard of anything like that except a wine red L5CES but they didn't have parallelograms or florentine cutaways of course. Unless it was some wacky 1 off custom order I think it was another model you played. Originally Posted by rolijen
I don’t think it’s a typo. I was in the 8th grade during ‘75 and ‘76 and after school some days I would walk to a Guitar Shop on the main drag (El Camino Real) in Menlo Park, CA. The shop was called Guitars Unlimited and after a few visits trying an SG and a Les Paul, I came across this gorgeous Wine Red carved top Gibson and it sounded so rich and woody. It had parallelogram inlays and gold hardware and it fed back like a son of a gun. I’m sure it had a pointy cutaway and two pickups. No idea what year the guitar was. I didn’t know anything about hollow guitars at the time and it wasn’t until years later that I put the pieces together to figure out it was an L-4. Whether CES in the the model name or not, it certainly was a Cutaway Electric Spanish. Maybe a special run? But, it was glorious.
I just checked the Gruhn book and no mention of such a run, only the CC equipped model.
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Speaking of wacky 1 off custom Gibsons I had a '69 ES175 w short Byrdland scale , all L-5 appointments, including gold hardware, so it's not impossible you're remembering correctly and it was 1 off.
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If it really had a carved top could have been a modded L-4C, but I suspect it was a WR ES-175 and didn't have a carved top.
Danny W.
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Except 175s weren't offered in wine red to my knowledge.
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One thing I know is that over time details can get confused. For ex, many times I've seen or purchased instruments from orig owners that swear they bought their guitar in 1955 for example, when the model wasn't introduced until 1960.
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From the Gibson website:
“The first wave of these guitars were built in small batches throughout the 1950s, but were perfected late in the decade. Along the way the guitar’s body traded its rounded edges for a single cutaway horn to allow easier access to the high notes – a sign of the L-4’s evolution from rhythm to lead-and-rhythm instrument. Finally, in 1958, the design reached a pinnacle with a run of 20 guitars bearing the Gibson L-4 CES name. Some had Charlie Christian pickups, others Alnicos, and a few sported humbuckers. Over time the humbuckers proved the most versatile and practical, and thus today’s graceful mahogany L-4 CES model reached maturity.”
In 1975 such a guitar would have only been 17 years old. The L-4 CES I played those times at Guitars Unlimited had a pair of humbuckers. It changed me. I hope to play another one soon !
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During the '70's Gibson had plenty of wine red to spare, regardless of what their catalogs showed. The ES-175T came stock in it, so it's not hard to imagine that an occasional full-depth version escaped: Originally Posted by wintermoon
https://www.empireguitarsri.com/list...e-red/16837577
Or perhaps a refinish. Seems more likely than an L-4CES back then.
Danny W.
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I do remember being confused by the model name because they also had a flashy (ugly to my eye) solid body Gibson L5S and I couldn’t remember which was the L4 and which was the L5. At that time, I knew nothing about the iconic L-5 archtop we all love but I did know Steve Howe played (among many others) an ES-175. The L-4 they had did look like Steve’s guitar only it was wine red, had gold hardware, and a fancier tailpiece, similar to the one on the ugly solid body L5S. These fragments and others (it would feedback at very low volumes, I clearly remember the slightly raised, straight grain lines on the spruce top). No, it was a carved spruce top guitar. Not an ES-175. Who knows! Fun memories though.
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That's very interesting, thanks for the reference! But I've never seen or heard of an L-4 w factory humbucker, let alone an Alnico, which was discontinued on standard guitars a little earlier. They couldn't have made more than one or two of each of those as experimental models. What are the chances the wine red w gold hardware you played was one? btw wine red wasn't introduced until the mid 70s I believe, though there are custom cherry guitars in the late 50s early 60s. Originally Posted by rolijen
From the Gibson website:
“The first wave of these guitars were built in small batches throughout the 1950s, but were perfected late in the decade. Along the way the guitar’s body traded its rounded edges for a single cutaway horn to allow easier access to the high notes – a sign of the L-4’s evolution from rhythm to lead-and-rhythm instrument. Finally, in 1958, the design reached a pinnacle with a run of 20 guitars bearing the Gibson L-4 CES name. Some had Charlie Christian pickups, others Alnicos, and a few sported humbuckers. Over time the humbuckers proved the most versatile and practical, and thus today’s graceful mahogany L-4 CES model reached maturity.”
In 1975 such a guitar would have only been 17 years old. The L-4 CES I played those times at Guitars Unlimited had a pair of humbuckers. It changed me. I hope to play another one soon !
I've seen at least 10 CC equipped L-4s over the yrs. Gruhn says they only came stock w CC's beginning in 58 w 9 shipped in 69. He's not the be all end all, I've seen him stumped more than once, no one knows everything, not even Gibson themselves
I dont think I'm wrong but hope I am, new day, new knowledge!
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Originally Posted by wintermoon
I dont think I'm wrong but hope I am, new day, new knowledge!
I was only 13. I may be remembering it wrong. But, it’s a great memory! Unlike the time the shop keeper told me to please stop after I played “Long Train Runnin’ “ for the hundredth time.
But that shop was amazing. I rented a blackface Vibrolux Reverb from them and a Les Paul Custom black beauty for my first real gig in 1976. I think it cost me $20. They had lots of interesting older guitars and newer ones. In the front display case, they had a ‘54 Les Paul with staple pole pickups. Jerry Garcia and Bob Weir taught guitar there a few years before I started going there. Seems like jazz players hung out there too. It was the first time I heard the term “cats” used to describe the people that went there. Ah, there were some great music stores in the San Francisco Bay Area at that time. I wish I could go back and get that Vibrolux Reverb. And that mystery wine red beauty.
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I believe that Gibson was lining up Sascha Distel for a signature model along with the Johnny Smith, Barney Kessel and Trini Lopez models, but it didn't happen. Here he is with an L-5CES and some versions of the L-4CES. He subsequently had a deal with Jacobacci in France for a similar signature guitar. Originally Posted by rolijen
Last edited by Hammertone; 08-08-2020 at 04:46 AM.
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Robert I remember that guitar store very well. They had a great repair tech too. I bought my 1978 Super 400 from them. They always had some nice archtops in stock. Gelb, Gryphon, and Guitars Unlimited.
Gelb and Gryphon are still here.
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And, as though that weren't enough, Sacha Distel & Brigitte Bardot were an item for over a year .......And he had others too ! Originally Posted by Hammertone
Some guys are have all the luck....... : )
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Good times! I bought my first Gibson (a ‘72 or ‘73 SG standard) at Guitars Unlimited. First tube amp (Traynor) was purchased at Swain’s on University Ave in Palo Alto! Neither of those places exist any more. Glad that Gelb is still around. Originally Posted by vinnyv1k
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I recently resisted for a week or two a local 1992 L4CES in natural finish on Craigslist. One day it was gone. Then it was posted again on Reverb and Craigslist 2hrs away. I contacted the seller it was the same one. The local seller unfortunately had some health issues and the buyer bought other guitars from him as well. It sold quickly. Kicking myself.
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I've also spent time at each of those fine Bay Area shops over the years. Great memories. Originally Posted by vinnyv1k
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The Music Zoo has a brand new one is stock. Very nice.
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Gibson Custom Shop L-4 Archtop Vintage Sunburst | The Music Zoo
Looks like an Indian Rosewood fretboard though. Still, nice to see a new one in 2020.
Its serial number is going to cause some confusion in the future. Gibson started the 2000s Noughties with 2xxx0xxx ending in 2xxx9xxx for 2009s. 2010s are 1xxx0xxx ending in 1xxx9xxx for 2019s. 2020s are...2xxx0xxx, the same serial numbers as Year 2000!
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Originally Posted by Jabberwocky
Jabbs,
From the MZ ad the fretboard does look like Indian Rosewood, I must say ,but the specs quote an Ebony fretboard ( ? )
I am inclined to agree with your opinion however.
Silverfoxx
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Here in Europe, it seems that we'll have it with rosewood fretboard, but with 7-9 weeks waiting :
Gibson L-4 CES VSB – Thomann France
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I think ebony fretboards may be a thing of the past for the L-4CES. Gibson seem to be hoarding ebony for their flagship archtops and Les Paul Custom reissues.
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