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How did you arrive at making that change ? What is different - - sound, attack, chord vs. single note, or ?? Do you hear a difference between acoustic vs plugged in ?
Please & Thanks.
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07-21-2018 12:24 PM
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We all seem to make adjustments as we learn to play. Many adjustments are to compensate for uneven string or PU response.
In my opinion a higher gauge (vs. the common mix) high E and B always sound better, but you might also find that you will need to unlearn some compensating for the thin plain strings in the commonly used set mix.
It is essentially the way TI gauges are set up in sets - a ~ .001” heavier high E and B.
I have no idea at all why this is not the standard.
The sound of the high strings is less plinky.
Originally Posted by Dennis D
The attack has fewer atonal transients - so less harsh on attack.
More even response in chords. Fuller high notes with less hard attack in the E and B.
Smoother single note response as you play across the FB, so less need to run up the FB to avoid a weedy sound on the high E.
To my ears this applies to both acoustic and amplified playing.
I would add that the tension balance is much better as well.
Other than that it is awful.
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I prefer light gauge strings so at times I’ll increase the high e for better string volume balance.
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For me, I was using .013s and figured I could keep the tighter feel on the trebles but ease things up on my hands a little and use the basses from a set of .012s.
I don't notice much tone difference with the lighter basses, so it became my way of doing things.
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I notice a huge difference in feel and sound, acoustic and amplified. I never play a high E lighter than .13 (I sometimes use .14) or a B lighter than .17 (I sometimes use .18 but not so much anymore). I've always preferred heavy strings. I like the feel and resistance. I can't stand a remotely plinky B or E.
I also sometimes swap out the TI wound G string for a DA .24w on my TI sets.Last edited by coolvinny; 07-21-2018 at 11:22 PM.
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I usually prefer 12 & 16 for the top strings (but I also like 13 & 17 too)
I like the top E & B swap sometimes, as I recently did with a set of 11-52 Curt Mangan flatwounds with great results.
But I do have a question. Are there significant differences between the various string brands on their plain strings? I usually buy local and end up with a hodge podge of brands -- Elixir, D'addario, Ernie Ball, etc. Are they basically the same, or are some zingy and some warm? I haven't gotten that sorted out yet.
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According to more than one member when this came up here in a previous string thread, there is very little difference in any manufacturers' plain steel strings. So, if money is an object, buy the lowest cost plain strings you can find. Originally Posted by Longways to Go
I wasn't aware of that, and hope it's correct. Also glad you asked that - maybe we could confirm that as well.
Thx !
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MAPES draws all the mandolin wires for string companies in the USA, I am quite sure. I learnt that under 50ga, they are called mandolin wire; 50ga and over, they are called piano wire. MAPES supplies strings to Steinway New York and other piano companies. It used to have a page showing brands that it oem-ed wires for. I recall seeing quite a few well-known brands. That page is gone now, for good reason.
My guess is that the plain steels all come from the same source: MAPES.
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yeah plain steel strings are just that...plain carbon/swedish steel...they are pretty much all the same....
some like thoms have (the standard) tin & a brass coated version..but the coating/plating is super thin and wears anyway...
there can be some differences in the way the ball end is wound...d'addario has two different versions of their plain strings..one with a bit more of a solid ball end..(the winds are soldered!)..(other companies cover it with silk)....so that may be a consideration..but other than that...little difference
d'addario sells 5 packs of their plain strings..always good to have an assortment in your string stash
cheers
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I have never been able to notice a volume or tone difference between any plain steel string. Originally Posted by Dennis D
Likewise I can not feel any difference based on being tin, or brass, or silver plated.
Your view seems sound to me.
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I started doing it because I could get the action lower that way and the E string was fatter. Now I just like the feel of it and find the whole set to be more balanced - I don’t need some crazy thick wire on my low E to like the sound but the thicker the top two strings are the more I like them, or at least that was my original thought. Of course Thomastik ships them like this and I like their Bebops rounds so often I’ll just order a set of those and my original (the thicker the better) has changed to a medium tension, usually doing a .012 set, though on some guitars I’ll use .013s.
I have always been curious to try a Pat Martino setup though, with a crazy thick E string. I think I would need to have the right guitar for that and maybe even individual saddles to really bring the action down on string 1 to make it comfortable for me to have a .016 gauge E string or whatever it is he does.
Edit: I forgot to mention that GHS makes a great set of flats with the top two strings heavier. It makes for a great set and I love the old school tone of their flats on some guitars.
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I use a set of 0.12 with 0.14 as high E. The reason is that it gives me somehow more definiton and response. The 0.12 sounds kind of "weak" which makes me pick a bit harder. Consequently this ruins the balance and the flow.
Also with the lighter string there seems to be this...I don't know how to put it exactly...annoying response because of lower tension.
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I mainly use TI Swing sets .013 to .053 and replace the .013 on some guitars with a .014. The .013s usually sound okay just for a few days then they thin out. Replacing with .14s gives me more definition and a somewhat "dryer" sound which i prefer. For a while i replaced the .017 with an .018, but it didn't feel as dynamically responsive as the .017 so i switched back eventually. Both 0.014 and 0.017 i usually replace with Elixirs of the same gauge after the original strings from the set loose their brillance, the Elixier's brillance lasts longer.
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I have 13-52 on my main guitar. 12-52 on another, which allows me to cover a lot of territory, including bendy stuff. A .014 top E works out fine, too, with lots of body to the sound.
A .013 tuned to E has a tension of 27 or so lbs., less than any standard .024 wound G that I know of, so no problem there.
I would not recommend jamming solos for too long on a beat-up old dreadnought strung high with a .026 G, however good the beer or the company - it caused my whole left arm to suddenly cramp up.
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On solid body or semi, I tend to keep the .012 that would come with a set. On an acoustic, I switch up. It takes more energy to drive the system that is dependent on moving wood, rather than a block which maintains energy that is detected by the pickups. I need .013 to feel "life" in the first strings when I'm playing acoustic (spruce with floating pickup). Action changes regularly for me depending on what I'm feeling at the time and my playing.
David
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For the really high gauge E people, is there any potential to twist the neck when going up to .015 or .016 on the E string? I have had heavy sets on before, straight sets of .014 were high tension but distributed evenly and I am wondering if all of that tension on one side of the neck might introduce some instability
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Depends on the guitar and the build. Yeah there's a real possibility. But I've seen "good" instruments with necks twisted using .010's, Gibson 335's that have gone wonky with normal use, and I've seen stock brand name instruments dead on with really heavy strings. Originally Posted by rio
Use the truss rod properly (just adjusted a fender the other day and I reached the end of the rod before the neck could be set right. Ouch!) and keep an eye on it.
Neck thickness, number of frets to the body join, cut of wood, type of wood, the individual tree, fingerboard, truss rod type, seasonal change, fret type, all sorts of other things too, can conspire to twist a neck. When it comes to necks, it's the single most vulnerable area on the guitar when it comes to stress.
David
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I believe Pat Martino back in the day used to pop the high E string due to his "vigorous" picking style, he so took to using progressively bigger gauges. In one of his sig. sets, the .015 high E will have considerably more tension than the .052 bottom, so it would theoretically pull to the treble side, yet I have not heard of any issues arisng from this, (except maybe busted fingers in some mortals).
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Hmm. I use 10's on my gypsy guitar, 26" scale length using a 5mm pick, downstrokes and incredibly hard hitting and I haven't broken a string yet. I do pick back by the bridge though. On my electrics, using pretty much the same technique and heavy 1.5-2.5mm picks and 10's or 11's but playing more towards the neck, I've still not broken any strings. I must not be as much a man as Pat Martino Originally Posted by Peter C
I take it back. I once broke a G string that was very old. I finished the night out with 5 strings, which was quite the challenge. Manhood saved!
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That's what I read about Mr Martino, could have been a string saddle problem? I really don't know. However, one of his custom sets sports a .026 G and a guy on this forum who took lessons with him mentioned that he likes a high action. Ouchville (see my above post). We're all different.
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man up martino!!..the great king of the surf guitar- dick dale used 16-60!!! haha
cheers
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I'm very easily upset by a plinky sounding E string. It's the one thing I hate about guitar.
So, I have tried going up as much as 2 gauges (to .012) but, it doesn't solve the problem.
I haven't tried even heavier strings because they feel too taut.
And, I have had two guitars that didn't have the problem. One was a 2009 or so D'A EXDC. It did develop the problem over time. Somebody suggested it might be the bridge saddle, but I haven't verified that yet.
Anyway, for my purposes, the solution doesn't seem to be going much heavier. Rather, it's finding out why I have been able to get a nice thick sound from a thin string one some guitars but not others.
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The pick can have a lot to do with it. When I ended up going down to .012s was when I started using Blue Chip picks because the sound changed. There were other picks I used before that also helped like the D’Andria Pro Plek and some others but before settling on this one pick I used to feel like some guitars of mine would have thinner sounding E strings than others so I used .014s. I don’t like the tension of .010s but even down at that gauge I don’t mind the sound of the E.
The other thing I discovered was it depended where I was picking. I didn’t put together that even if it felt like I was playing on the same spot between guitars that I wasn’t and often the ones I didn’t like the sound of the E with I was playing further towards the bridge than I realized. This was mostly due to going between body sizes like a 17” archtop to a semi, liking the E on the former but not the latter, and because of the body size difference and scale length difference I was plucking closer to the bridge on the latter because even though it felt like I was picking on the same spot as the other guitar I was actually further towards the bridge.
The bridge/saddles can certainly make a difference too and different guitars respond differently so it is hard to guess what is happening for you to not like the E on some guitars, but I know that once I found myself consistently playing on the same part of the string across all of my guitars (regardless of body size and length) that I found the tone of the E string to be more consistent across all of them. And the pick of course.
Edit: I don’t know if going up to .012 you’ll get that pronounced heavy E string difference either. .012 was on the low end for me, although now standard after working out the above, and it wasn’t until .014 that I found the E to sound the way I wanted. There is definitely a sound the guys who use heavy E strings get and that does seem to start at .014.
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Heavy strings means high tension and high down force on the bridge. While acoustic volume may increase, sustain may suffer and the guitar could be choked. The stiffness of the top dictates the optimal down force resulting from string gauge and bridge height (string break angle). Longer scale means higher tension and higher down force for a given gauge everything else equal.
There are more than one way to cure a weak high E (and/or B). If the problem is acoustic in nature, it could be setup related:
- Check the base of a floating bridge to make sure it fits the arch perfectly without gap.
- With lighter strings you may want to give the neck some more relief and raise the action to give the strings room to vibrate. By raising the bridge you also increase down force on the bridge to compensate for the lighter string's lower tension. Sometimes this is just what it takes to drive the top.
- Check the string slots at the nut and at the saddle. A one-piece wooden bridge saddle is warmer and more acoustic sounding than a TOM.
- Aim for a level bridge, square to the top. Avoid a slanting bridge. The most common fault is a bridge that slopes from the bass side to the treble side. Raise the treble side and lower the bass side to make the bridge level.
If the treble strings have a thin amplified sound:
- Lighter strings oscillate with higher amplitude and can yield a fat amplified tone, make sure there's enough neck relief for the strings to vibrate.
- Set guitar controls on full throttle for maximum signal strength and adjust amp settings. Avoid mid scoped amp settings.
- Adjust the pickup height and angle and always adjust the pole pieces when possible.
- The pick is also very important (if you use a pick). Some shapes and materials (thick or not) are thin sounding. Heavy picks with round edges usually makes fat tones. Make sure there's enough action to dig in.
- Pick near the neck end for a fatter, rounder tone.
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Fed up of the silly things flapping around like rubber bands.
Basically what I want is a balanced tension set. If I buy D’Addario balanced tension or TI swings or bebops I get the right gauges, but with other brands I have to chop and change.
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