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Hi guys!
Can you please explain me one thing about Gibson 57 classic pickup?
How is it works that the pickup suit for both positions(bridge and neck)?
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06-01-2018 02:04 PM
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It’s not really that it works for both. Any pickup “works” in any position. It’s just the way it used to be. By being in the neck the pickup is a bit louder. To compensate for that, modern sets come with a slightly louder version in the bridge.
From their materials:
“The Gibson '57 Classic Humbucking pickup for the neck position is a reproduction of the original Gibson Humbucker from the late 1950's. In those days, Gibson did not build separate pickups in those days for Neck and Bridge, they used the same pickup for both. To best replicate the "Gibson PAF", guitarists should put a '57 Classic in the Neck and Bridge positions. It is actually for both. For more modern sounds, the '57 Classic in the neck can be paired with the '57 Classic Plus in the bridge. “
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It's just a great pickup. A "classic"
Usually, the bridge pick up is quite a bit closer to the strings, so that changes things.
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Usually, if they come stock in a guitar, you get a 57 in the neck and a 57+ in the bridge
That's the way it was with my 2010 Les Paul Trad and my Epi Johnny A
Original 57 Gibsons didn't have different neck and bridge humbuckers.
I think that started with guys like DiMarzio winding hot pickups and sticking them in the bridge for those Rawk tones. Then everyone wanted a hot bridge bucker.
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I thought the bridge is always made hotter to compensate for less string vibration. So no matter which one you put in the neck, the bridge one has to be hotter to match volume. That what ive read somewhere, but i might be wrong.
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Correct.
Originally Posted by Hep To The Jive
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Or as noted earlier, you can adjust the volume through pickup height. A pickup is a pickup, and will work anywhere underneath the strings. But some pickups do sound better in some locations.
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I have 57's in one of my Gibsons Les Paul. They are louder then Burstbusters, yet now as much as 490 and 498 and 500. They are a Bluey type Pickup with little mud.
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I do like the 57 Classic in the neck position of a ES-355 etc. Not so much the bridge position. The Classic 57 has both coild wound the same amount of turns and is a med/hot output pickup. I prefer lower winds and mismatched coils like in the Burstbuckers,MHS, or other boutique PAF's out there. Especially Manluis Landmark PAF and Hot Rod 59 combo!
Humbuckers – Manlius Guitar
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Another thing to consider with neck vs bridge pickup is string spacing.
Its narrower at the neck than at the bridge and on some guitars with wider string spacing at the bridge like those equipped with tremolo or some telecaster bridge it can be too narrow.
On regular dual humbuckers equipped guitars, it is usually a tradeoff in alignment at neck vs bridge for pole piece vs strings.
Brand like Seymour Duncan have trembucker version of their pickups with the wider pole piece spacing.
Its what I put on my Warmoth Telecaster project sporting a Gotoh bridge, a regular humbucker would have had its pole piece off, not good for my OCD. Would that change so much the tone, I am not sure, but it would tease my cosmetic expectations.
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hmmm, on my 2003L5CES the bridge pickup has noticable less volume than the neck pickup, inspite of being quite close to the strings. Does this indicate that they installed the wrong type of PU in bridge position? I guess the only way to find out for sure is to measure the resistance .... or is the volume difference proof enough?
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Fun fact: it doesn't. Originally Posted by Art310
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No, it just proof of the laws of physics working. Originally Posted by JazzNote
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Ime works very well in some instances, for example my 2002 Gibson es-135. Originally Posted by LtKojak
Fun fact: it doesn't.
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I have 57 classics in 4 guitars (1996 L-5 WESMO, 1997 Super 400, 1997 ES-175, 2017 ES-175 Figured). The bridge PUP is weaker than the neck PUP, but since I never use the bridge PUP (and the L-5 WESMO doesn't even have a bridge PUP), it is of no matter to me.
It is interesting that my 1963 ES-175D has pre-T-top PUPS with a matched resistance and they are evenly balanced in the guitar.
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I believe my new ES 175 has 57 classic neck, 57+ bridge.
I don't know much about the difference -- I'm guessing the 57+ is a little hotter?
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The 57s in my 2016 Memphis, not a reissue, has 57s, no plus, in both positions, I think. When I pulled the neck and compared it to the bridge via mirror and light, I could spot no differences in appearance or labeling. I do have the neck and its poles set quite a bit lower than the bridge for output balance. I only use the bridge in conjunction with the neck and use the vol control to blend and even that use is infrequent.
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I may be wrong on the 57+ bridge. That's what I thought I remembered from when I went in there to change the springs to tubing, but It's been a while and I could easily have miss-remembered. Originally Posted by Longways to Go
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I have a 1990 ES-347, a discontinued guitar that is very similar to a BBKING/Lucille, but with F-holes. It came with Series 7 pickups (actually a Dirty Fingers with a gold cover). I never liked the one in the bridge position because the high output pick attack of each note was distressing.
I replaced it with a Classic'57 and now I use that one neck pickup 85% of the time. It is a mellower pickup, and while having a an output of 7.5-8.0 kHz as compared to the Dirty Fingers of 14 kHz, it is just as loud, but without the pick attack.
The pickups Gibson puts in the Les Pauls, except for P90's and Mini humbuckers tend to be Burstbuckers, MHS, and Custombuckers which have uneven windings on each of the 2 bobbins per pickup. While designed to be more vintage specific, they may sound harsh. These pickups actually predate the final form of the PAF pickups. The modern humbuckers have even windings on each bobbin. This includes the Classic '57, 490, 498, 500, and Dirty Fingers. I have not found that I need the Classic '57+ because I like the bridge DF and it has a Tele-like clarity, for a humbucker.
I wouldn't mind having both Classic '57's in both positions on my guitar because the Alnico 2 magnets are mellower in sound than the ceramics in my old Dirty Fingers pickups. But the ceramic magnet is really clear sounding and still have good bass and midrange, in addition to the peaky treble.
Last edited by qblue; 06-04-2018 at 11:44 AM.
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I have '57 Classics as stock pups in:
'15 EPI ES-175 Premium ('57 plus/bridge)
'15 Gibson Flying V ('57 plus/bridge)
'16 Gibson ES-335 Studio ('57 Super/bridge)
'16 Gibson ES Les Paul Special ('57 Super/bridge)
Frankly, I'm at a loss. They sound great but so different in different guitars. I could say they are thus extremely versatile, but I can't be sure that's the case. I'm not inclined to replace them in any of those guitars, however. They seem well matched to the guitars, but I'm not sure why they seem that different. As a whole, they are on the brighter side, not really what I expected in that respect, but as opposed to what, I guess. Notably brighter in the Flying V and the ES Les Paul Special.
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I found the 57/57+ sound great in my Epi Johnny A but not good in my Les Paul. Muddy neck and midling bridge. I went to a Seth Lover/Biltoft in the Les Paul.
I put a 57 in the neck of my Godin Montreal Premier and it sounds great.
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I have these in a '94 SE, which another post said is highly unusual. Does anyone suppose that Seth Lovers would be more fitting for this large hollow body?
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As I noted in the related post, Seth Lovers made a big difference in mine. It originally came with Schallers which I hated. Thin and without any depth. I was so disappointed and at first blamed the guitar. It sounded nothing like my Gibson Super V. Originally Posted by tomvwash
That said I don’t have any experience with 57’s so I can’t compare. I can tell you definitively though that Seth Lovers work well in this guitar.
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This is another example--like the LP and 175 and Tele--that the old guys got right.
This is about as perfect as a pickup can get. Extremely versatile, and extremely responsive to picking style. There are lots of variations and refinements since then, but the original still sets a standard that's hard to beat.
I think the Stew Mac Parsons Street Alnico 2's come pretty close. Epi Classic 57's work OK in some guitars but in my experience don't have the expressiveness of the Gibsons.
The first thing I did when I got my 135 was to take out the pickups and make sure someone hadn't replaced them along the way. Fortunately...not.
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I've played and collected for a long time and repaired / modified /restored for almost as long. One really frustrating aspect of using both pickups on a guitar is getting them both to balance and sound the way you want. It's a LOT easier to get a single-pickup guitar to work for you. I actually like one-pickup in the bridge for rock or blues stuff. All I need is a volume knob and the right amp. Sometimes a simple magnet swap from Alnico 2 to Alnico 5 with do it and sometimes just a little hotter [more windings] coil will do it. I actually prefer the Gibson '57 with Alnico 5 magnets to put a bit more high-end into the sound. Things get more complicated with my 2 or 3 pickup guitars. I always use a lower wind [about 7.7 K] for a neck pickup. This takes some of the "mud" out of it and balances it out a bit better with the bridge pickup. The bridge pickup is wound to around 8.6K . This is basically a good starting point for humbucker guitars [Strats are a different topic]. Of course the type of coil wire and winding technique is another topic, too. Lowering the neck pickup to a specific height will also help to balance things out.
Something to consider is the inherent sound of the guitar itself. Some of them just plain sound harsh or boomy or unbalanced, or........crappy. No pickup will change that. That's why it's much simpler to get your SG Jr. to sound the way you want it to and seemingly impossible to balance your ES-335.
The same pickup will also always sound different in a different guitar. If you compare 20 Les Pauls all made at the same factory on the same day with the same batch of wood they will sound different from each other and no pickup will alter that fact.
Anyway.....just some of my experience.
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