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I'm evaluating perspectives for an all acoustig archtop loud enough to be suitable for accompaniment & soloing in my duos (singer & guitar or saxophonist & guitar) or trios (with added bassplayer), for indoor and outdoor use.
One of the problems is that some of the saxplayers i play with are quite loud, even if amplified i might have troubles hearing myself well enough unless i place the amp aiming at my ears. So my concern is that when playing acoustically i probably would not really be able to hear myself well enough and die idea of a integrated soundport located on the upper side aiming at myself came up.
Does anyone have experiences with soundports in archtops which he could share?
Would a soundport change the projection of the instrument from the listeners side?
Pros / cons in general?
Thanks
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05-28-2018 04:52 AM
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There is a little discussion of soundports here:
Carved archtop
My only direct experience is playing someone else's classical guitar with a port and the sound from the player's position was notably better. There are other players here with experience with ported archtops, though.
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I've played classical and acoustic guitars with such sound holes, and they were quite nice. If your group is as loud as you're saying, though, a sound port will not likely help! You may need to consider different amp/speaker placement, adding an extension cab, using a Bose tower, or something like the Sonusphere. [or ask the guys to play softer!]
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I'm well equipped & experienced with all sorts of amplification but unfortunately some locations prohibit the use of amplifiers and so far i always turned down requests to play there. My intention now is to change this and find an ideal solution.
Originally Posted by marcwhy
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I am a traditionalist and see no advantage to sound ports. To achieve the best sound on an archtop the top vibrates and produces sound that is then projected off the maple back. This is very different from violins with sound post and frankly having played guitars with side ports I have been less impressed.
One thing for sure, it that when someone tells you an archtop guitar has anything similar to a violin in comparison, please run away from them they do not understand what is going on. Sound ports might be of some help to a player but has nothing to do with what the audience hears.
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Of course, that's what i'm looking for - help to hear my own playing better. And if incorporating a port would not alter the sound of the guitar towards the audience it would be ideal .... Originally Posted by deacon Mark
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I can't speak to soundports in archtops but I own three classical/Flamenco guitars with soundports. They do make a difference to the players ears and as far as I can tell make no difference to what the audience hears. That being said, the size of the soundport needs to be considered with the size of the sound holes. To minimize any tonal or volume loss/change I kept the ports under 1 1/2" in diameter. Originally Posted by JazzNote
I will also say that when I have played the guitars in places that are highly reflective, the sound from the port is less evident i.e. you are getting more of the guitar back at you. . Any flattop or classical guitar I have in the future will include a soundport.
Like I said, earlier I have next to no experience with soundports on archtops. The only one I played was a Monteleone, which was the best sounding archtop I have played in 20 years of archtop ownership. I can't say or remember how much the ports contributed to the quality of sound to the player in that particular guitar.
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I build acoustic archtops and I always put in a sound port. I think it makes a big difference to the player. The archtop soundboard seems to project forward more in a narrower cone. Having a monitor for the player is more valuable, in my opinion, in an archtop than in any other guitar.
I suspect the only reason they aren’t more common is that few archtops are played as acoustic instruments. If you have an amp five feet behind you, or a pa monitor on the floor a few paces in front you won’t need a sound port.
Playing an archtop as a purely acoustic instrument is so uncommon I am not sure I should call my acoustic guitars “archtops” despite the way they are built. But if you are playing in an acoustic only gig or using mics only I would think you will get a big benefit from a soundport.
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I have zero experience of such an instrument, but thanks to your post I found this "blue guitar by kt labster". No idea if it really exists. Absolutely love it.
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That looks interesting, but the string geometry is terrible. Too many bends, too much angle, at the nut and bridge. It would be very difficult to tune and keep in tune. As for the sound ports, I'd have to hear it to comment.
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I visit John Monteleone’s Shop quite often
and all of his current builds have sound ports. In my opinion these sound ports really do enhance the experience for the player - and on Johns guitars the projection is still amazing as one would expect.
Of course John Monteleone’s guitars are out of reach for most , but I’ve also owned one of Eric Solomons guitars with a sound port and it was fantastic.
Eric is a fine builder in New Hampshire and his prices are very reasonable. Fit and finish is perfection - and some of the finest fretwork I’ve ever seen. Only drawback - his guitars are French polished - which is a soft finish and scratches quite easily.
You might also try Shelly Park guitars. She builds Gypsy Jazz style guitars with sound ports and they are also fantastic with great projection and excellent workmanship.
Good luck with your search
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Ha I am that weirdo. I think laying purely acoustically is a little more common than it was ten or twenty years ago Originally Posted by rlrhett
I play in a wandering group that plays Motown, soul, doo wop and swing stuff, and I play an acoustic archtop for that (or selmac)
I also play acoustically in rehearsals quite a bit.
I do find that it can be hard to hear myself when playing archtop. I do wonder if a soundport would help, without removing some of the overall projection of the instrument (is that an issue?)
I also find myself using the acoustic sound of the guitar even when amplified. Again I could imagine a soundport being helpful even with the amp. It’s a mix of the two to me.
Of course I imagine the audience hears mostly the electric sound so it’s all about me lol.
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Alex Bishop (a sel-mac maker) likes soundports. I must try one of his guitars at some point.
He told me a while back he’d love to get into archtops. I wonder if he has?
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StewMac should sell holes you can apply to your guitar like a decal. You measure the port area carefully, take the appropriate sized hole and simply apply it to the sides. Of course reversibility can be an issue.
David
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With sufficient of these holes a solo guitarist should be able to fill the Albert Hall
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You can do it yourself!
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Maybe he's trying to let the demons out of the guitar.
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I'm not sure I'm up for doing that to a Benedetto
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Yes, the "tailpiece" especially needs a rethink. Originally Posted by sgosnell
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Have a sound port on all archtops. Wish I had them on all flat tops.
It's an easy test.. play a little.. cover soundhole.. play some more... quite a large difference in how much more you hear with the port. Not loud but louder and certainly a lot more musical information.
Of course nothing short of a banjo is going to keep up with a saxophone unless maybe you resort to set ups used pre-Charlie C and satisfy yourself with chord rhythms.
As for a port diminishing what the audience hears, I doubt it would be measurable.
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I owned a Raines git briefly which had a sound port and the effect on sound directed at me was very noticeable and pleasing. I liked the effect of the sound hole so much I wondered why more archtops were not made with one.
Unfortunately the body had many repaired cracks that the seller did not reveal in the listing and I sent it back.
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I had my luthier put a small soundport in my Eastman 805. Now I hear what I previously only heard when I played against a wall. Very good monitor. No change in sound for the audience as far as I can judge.
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Saw a blues band in a coffee shop once, drummer had the Sunday paper on his snare
bass and guitar amps wer turned down lower than church mice...
... BUT that LOUD sax player was over the top annoying...
Instead of getting a soundport, buy the Sax player this instead...
https://www.walmart.com/ip/Aluminum-...&wl13=&veh=sem
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Yeah, guaranteed to decrease the soundness, which is a good thing for most saxists.
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Thank you Steve, Originally Posted by QAman
Yes, John Monteleone guitars are definitely out of my reach. Eric's guitars look gorgeous too, great design work. Not sure if a gypsy style guitar would go well with my playing, i guess one day i will have to try this anyway.
I'm also in contact with Frans Elferink who has experienced that his guitars with soundports were much appreciated by the owners. So far i have heard nothing negative by anyone who played a guitar with a port.
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