Jazz Amps

**trauma15** · 10-20-2009, 07:43 PM

Hey there,
Im having a really tough time making some decisions on some gear. I have been using an epiphone archotop guitar for awhile through a polytone mini brute III amp (both of which i dont actually own). I am getting a custom shop suhr archtop guitar. It is more or less semihollow. im going for more of that modern sound w/ extra versatility for playing other genres of music (i practice and study straight ahead jazz, but i also play fusion, rock fusion shredding and alt/prog rock). With that purchase I will be getting a notable discount on an amp if i buy it all together.

First thing that comes to my mind, get a fender tube amp. the one I like the most, the Deluxe doesnt have that much headroom but sounds great. or maybe it does have enough headroom. any thoughts??? Twin seems too big and sounded 'boxy' to me.

In the store, next to the deluxe was a bogner duende and shiva. They sounded great. However im not sure what bogner's rep is for jazz music and also im concerned that theyre not as transparent as a fender deluxe. In any case beautiful amps and really great and fendery sounding cleans. The bogner shiva 60 watt 6l6 112 combo amp would be twice as much money as the deluxe which is fine especially since it has great gain on tap which is cool but like i said im not sure how it will react to semihollow/hollow guitars for straight ahead jazz. Also they are or seem to be heavy. 68-71 lbs.

So I thought i would see if anyone has any experience with these type of amps and could recommend to me the most convenient and logical route to take.

just fyi what im using now: the epiphone archtop, into a polytone. and for rock music i use a schecter into a mesa boogie dual rectifier, and i also have a fender blues jr which is not loud enough not enuf headroom for jazz so i want to get rid of it. I have a 212 mesa cab obviously so that can be used as an extension for anything i buy. Ive also looked at some of those jazzkat and henriksen amps and heads.... any thoughts on that route? I mean a head could be good i can just use it with the mesa cab and not have any problems with headroom. might be a bit dark sounding but they look nice.

anyways Im just looking for an amp that sounds good and is very portable for gigging and if it is versatile than thats a plus.... man those bogners are really nice i just need some evidence for me to decide that im going to spend all that money on a jazz amp that sounds good for rock.... as opposed to buying a just rock amp that has a good clean tone, which i have in the dual rectifier which i would never bring to a jazz gig. too heavy, half stack is too much crap to carry, too loud and the tone is not transparent enough.

thanks!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
-trauma

**Tom Karol** · 10-20-2009, 08:13 PM

I just sold a Rivera R55-112 in order to buy a Henriksen JazzAmp112. I love the Henriksen, but it's a jazz amp pure and simple. Clean country and blues - maybe - but no rock tones (at least not without a lot of pedals) to be sure. On the other hand, the Rivera was tremendously versatile and could do both Jazz and Rock equally well; I think it would have suited your purpose as stated admirably. However, it used those pesky old tubes and weighed 15 pounds more than the Henriksen (47 vs 32). The JazzKats, the Phil Jones Super Cub, and the Fender Jazzmaster Ultralight all have dual channels and built-in effects, so one of them (particularly the Jazzmaster Ultralight from what I've read) might be a, "... jazz amp that sounds good for rock."

**derek** · 10-21-2009, 01:15 PM

I think you have to compromise a bit if you are looking for one that does it all. The amps Tom mentioned do not do the rock thing well imo. I think you are on the right track with an amp that has a really good clean channel. Most amps do one or two things well, and that is about it.

Fender and Fenderesque amps would be the way I would go. So, Rivera, Zinky, Boogie, and any other tube amp that has enough clean headroom. You can always put whatever effects you want for rock/fusion in front to dirty it up.

For me, I play thru a Ceriatone OTS (Dumble clone) that is 6L6 based, or a Lil Dawg Tweed Deluxe, which is also 6L6 based and is a Fender Tweed Deluxe clone. Happy hunting.

**randyc** · 10-21-2009, 01:20 PM

I've seen Fender Deluxe amplifiers in just about every music scene imaginable. Pretty hard to make one of those degrade the sound of any guitar, if you get my drift

**Tom Karol** · 10-21-2009, 01:24 PM

"The amps Tom mentioned do not do the rock thing well imo ... So, Rivera, Zinky, Boogie, and any other tube amp that has enough clean headroom."

OK, fair enough!

**BigDaddyLoveHandles** · 10-21-2009, 01:24 PM

I second the notion: you need more than one amp. Otherwise, you'll compromise and have an amp that does just jazz or rock well, or neither well.

**mr. beaumont** · 10-21-2009, 01:26 PM

twin sounded boxy? that's a critique i've never heard!

if you can't play jazz thru a deluxe, you're probably playing too loud, but that's just my opinion.

if you like how boogie does clean and dirty, maybe what you really want is a smaller boogie?

**NSJ** · 10-21-2009, 01:46 PM

Agree that Polytones and Henriksens are incredible one trick ponies. But if want a diversified horse , Id pony up for a fender twin, if you don't mind the weight. For me the Blues Jr sucked . But the twin is an incredible jazz amp that can do so much more---I found for jazz on a twin, I dial DOWN most of the guitar volume, ramp up the amp voluMe, I get an optimal clean b
loud and sweet sound

**BigDaddyLoveHandles** · 10-21-2009, 02:49 PM

If you have a 2x12" cabinet you like, have you considered just getting an amp head (or two?). On the Jazz side, Henriksen (160W), Evans (200W), Fender Jazzmaster Ultralight (250W) and Acoustic Image (800W) come to mind.

**musicalbodger** · 10-21-2009, 03:42 PM

Don't know whether this is of any help but I use a 28 year old Ibanez AS200 (semi-hollow body) through a Fender Hot Rod Deluxe, upgraded with 2 JJ 6L6s and 3 Tung-sol 12AX7s. The Groove Tubes in the Fender were just too feeble, but this combination has quite a kick and a good clean channel with just enough bite when played hard. Whack a bunch of pedals in the chain and it's

. Oh, and it has a Celestion Vintage speaker. Never use the dirty channel. It's light enough to gig with and has such a transparent sound. Inspiring to play through. Certainly versatile and good for jazz. That said, my 30 year old Peavey Special 120 still takes a lot of beating.

**derek** · 10-21-2009, 04:26 PM

Originally Posted by Tom Karol

"The amps Tom mentioned do not do the rock thing well imo ... So, Rivera, Zinky, Boogie, and any other tube amp that has enough clean headroom."

OK, fair enough!

Tom, how do you like the Henricksen? I have been getting a bit tired of the boxy sound of my JazzKat. I don't have access to try it or the Phil Jones, so my curiosity is definitely up.

**cosmic gumbo** · 10-21-2009, 05:31 PM

I've been using an old '68 silverface Fender deluxe reverb for quite a while, and I think it does everything very well. You can use an extension cab if you want to push more air. It does clean well enough to use in a big band, so it definitely is clean in a smaller jazz group. I know that the current new deluxe reissue has even more clean headroom than my old deluxe. Do we even have to mention how good the deluxe sounds for rock and blues? It kills for rhythm and lead. It is a tone machine. I will not subject my ears on stage to an amp that is louder than the deluxe, there is no sane reason for it. That's what a front of the house system is for.

**lpdeluxe** · 10-21-2009, 06:09 PM

I have a work-in-progress: it's a Fender Band-Master VM with a 15" speaker cabinet. Currently I'm plugging it into a Hartke 1-15 bass cab, but I have a Weber rig on order. I play my 335 through it, with a full, rich sound. It's like my Blues Jr NOS, but more and louder (I don't play that loud, but the additional headroom may be what you want).

I also have a Fender Jazzmaster Ultralight. At 250 watts, there are beaucoups of clean head room. To my ear, it's also a great sounding amp, but seems to be happier with my LP Deluxe (mini humbuckers) than the 335.

**Tom Karol** · 10-21-2009, 07:02 PM

"Tom, how do you like the Henriksen? I have been getting a bit tired of the boxy sound of my JazzKat. I don't have access to try it or the Phil Jones, so my curiosity is definitely up."

I've had it for a month now, and the honeymoon is over, but I'm still in love with it! I went nuts about it on this forum about 3 weeks ago; go here.

Previously, I had tried the JazzKat PhatKat and the Henriksen JazzAmp 112 head to head (with a CS-336 they had at the store) - I'd actually gone in because of the JazzKat.

I tried the JazzKat first. I’m sorry, but I was disappointed. The bottom end was not all that clear, and there was a distinct boxiness about it. I did end up managing to dial in a pretty good sound, but it wasn’t all that easy. The effects didn’t do much for me either.

Then I tried the Henriksen. I set all the EQ’s at 12 O’clock and the volume at 9 O’clock. I loved it: warm, fat, clear, balanced, open, powerful, and punchy! Then I realized that the reverb was switched off – and I love reverb! I switched it on and set it at about 9:00. Sounded even better! I said to my wife, "That's it - that's the sound I was looking for!"

Then, I tried them both again, just to confirm my initial impressions - no change.

I didn't compare it to an Evans, Phil Jones, or Jazzmaster Ultralight - simply because I couldn't find any one of them to try.

**lpdeluxe** · 10-21-2009, 07:35 PM

Originally Posted by Tom Karol

I didn't compare it to a Jazzmaster Ultralight - simply because I couldn't find any one of them to try.

I think Fender is missing a bet by not getting the JM out there.

But it's cool that you've found the amp. It's what we all aspire to.

**Tom Karol** · 10-21-2009, 07:51 PM

Originally Posted by lpdeluxe

I think Fender is missing a bet by not getting the JM out there.

But it's cool that you've found the amp. It's what we all aspire to.

I agree. I mean, there simply are no Evans dealers in all of New England - don't know about Phil Jones. But there are, of course, lots of Fender dealers and not a JMUL to be found.

**lpdeluxe** · 10-21-2009, 08:56 PM

I had to order mine, unheard: luckily, it lived up to the Harmony Central reviews.

**BigDaddyLoveHandles** · 10-21-2009, 09:53 PM

I'm also disappointed that Fender stopped producing the Jazz King, a 140W, 1x15" combo. Yet another Fender amp that deserves more from the mother ship.

**lpdeluxe** · 10-22-2009, 09:44 AM

In my dweeby way, I discovered the Jazz-King right after it was discontinued. I searched online for one, and finally decided to go with the Band-Master VM with a 1-15 instead (we'll see how the Weber works, but at least it's available). The tone "tilt" control sounded like exactly what I wanted.

**Scotto** · 10-25-2009, 11:26 AM

Ever look into a Marshall 2100 Lead and Bass? It's got what you need for things other than jazz but has a really nice clean channel with loads of tone.

**brownbagpro** · 10-25-2009, 11:04 PM

Just wanted to put in my 2 cents worth as a jazzer who plays all styles of music. If you are looking for an amp that does both jazz and rock or fusion or whatever, the Bogner SHIVA is worth the money. They are pricey (retail around $2800) but a great amp for those willing to get a GREAT range of sounds. I play a variety of axes: Schaefer 17" Swingmaster, Ibanez GB-10, Gibson 335,175 & Les Paul, Strat and Tele. They all sound awesome through my Shiva. I have a wide selection of amps (always in search of THAT tone): Roland JC-120, Vibro-King, Trace Elliot, MusicMan 210 one hundred (sweet), and 75w Peavey. I've experimented with all of them switching between styles of music and gear and have settled on the Shiva for everything. By the way, the Shiva comes in 2 versions; I have the 80w EL-34 driven one that has a bit more "VOX" sound than the 60w 6L6 that is more "Fender". The clean is CRYSTAL!!! The gain side is rock-wild! I actually use the gain side for most of my jazz work, though. I like just a little spice in my gumbo! If you have the dough, i'm telling you it's worth it. Try it with both styules of music you play and you'll agree. It's heavy (70 lbs) so pay a little extra for the wheels.

**trauma15** · 10-26-2009, 12:14 AM

Originally Posted by brownbagpro

Just wanted to put in my 2 cents worth as a jazzer who plays all styles of music. If you are looking for an amp that does both jazz and rock or fusion or whatever, the Bogner SHIVA is worth the money. They are pricey (retail around $2800) but a great amp for those willing to get a GREAT range of sounds. I play a variety of axes: Schaefer 17" Swingmaster, Ibanez GB-10, Gibson 335,175 & Les Paul, Strat and Tele. They all sound awesome through my Shiva. I have a wide selection of amps (always in search of THAT tone): Roland JC-120, Vibro-King, Trace Elliot, MusicMan 210 one hundred (sweet), and 75w Peavey. I've experimented with all of them switching between styles of music and gear and have settled on the Shiva for everything. By the way, the Shiva comes in 2 versions; I have the 80w EL-34 driven one that has a bit more "VOX" sound than the 60w 6L6 that is more "Fender". The clean is CRYSTAL!!! The gain side is rock-wild! I actually use the gain side for most of my jazz work, though. I like just a little spice in my gumbo! If you have the dough, i'm telling you it's worth it. Try it with both styules of music you play and you'll agree. It's heavy (70 lbs) so pay a little extra for the wheels.

hey its funny ive heard that the shiva is a really good all around amp....even for jazz which is hard to imagine. but there is no question about it's rock sound.

anyways, do you really think its clean tone with a semihollow guitar plugged in will compare to a fender or some other similar commonly used jazz tube amp?

I honestly dont want to do the shiva it looks too heavy.
Im super frustrated because I want to make a smart decision on my new gear. I need to get a Jazz guitar and amp that will keep me satisfied. No dealer around here sells this stuff so its impossible to really make a decision.

Right now i was thinking of getting the headstrong royal reverb (similar to fender deluxe but more headroom and much better) and a suhr archtop guitar. Issue is im not sure the suhr its as thick as someone would want their jazz guitar so im starting to question myself...and if i put the order in now it wouldnt come till feb '10! thats quite a bit of time to be wondering if the guitar is gonna be appropriate or not. other options might be sadowsky or es335....not sure. anyone have any advice?

**brownbagpro** · 10-26-2009, 06:53 PM

I play my ES-335 through my Shiva and it sounds great. Any guitar you plug into it will sound unbelievable. Get the wheels for it or else get a dollie and don't worry about the weight. It's worth the "weight".