a GOOD preamp for plugging into PA

[Doug B]

The Ethos preamps might be a good choice:

Here's the Ethos web site:

Preamp/Pedals

[jzucker]

the best is the atomic amplirebox IMO. The tube pedals by kingsley are also good but don't have a low pass filter as far as I know so they may be bright going direct.

Ethos is also good. It does have a low pass filter.

The problem is that there are few good clean demos of the amplifire box.

This is the closest I could find but I don't think anything else even comes close.

[KirkP]

You’ll find a few dusty threads on preamps for direct to PA use if you do some searching here. Five years ago people seemed excited about the Joyo JF-14 American Sound, which is voiced to emulate a tweed Fender Deluxe. It was fairly cheap, so I picked one up but it’s been a while since I’ve used it.
JOYO Technology

EDIT — After reading the next few posts in the thread, I realize I should have mentioned that the Joyo pedal is clearly derivatived from the Tech 21 Blonde pedal. I assume that it doesn’t violate patents, copyrights or trademarks, or involved actual theft of intellectual property. Even if it’s legal, it’s fair to ask whether it’s ethical to produce a functional equivalent of another manufacture’s pedal. But out of respect for the OP, I feel an extended discussion of that topic belongs in a separate thread.
TECH 21 - CHARACTER SERIES

Also, I think these pedals are designed to be in front of a guitar amp and they don’t have reverb or other effects, so they aren’t a one-box solution for input to a PA.

[Doug B]

Also see BluGuitar AMP1:

BluGuitar AMP1 - YouTube

BluGuitar - Home of the AMP1 100 Watt Guitar Amp

[jzucker]

i advise not supporting joyo since they rip their circuits off from people like Paul Cochrane and pay no royalties.

[Doug B]

Jack-thanks for the Joyo warning.

[Cunamara]

i advise not supporting joyo since they rip their circuits off from people like Paul Cochrane and pay no royalties.

A lot of the circuits in guitar pedals are straight out of electronics textbooks. Probably fairly few boutique makers are developing their circuits from the ground up.

[jorgemg1984]

That is true, but the Tim / Timmy are Paul's designs.

[Klatu]

My issue with the Joyo goes beyond patent infringement. I find that the pedal doesn't quite have enough headroom to achieve unity volume while maintaining a squeaky clean sound. With the level fully cranked, I need to set the gain at around 9 o'clock to achieve unity volume, and even then I get slight distortion when I dig in at full guitar volume.

[jzucker]

No Sorry. Joyo is not just copying old fuzz and wah-wah circuits. The circuits they stole from Paul Cochrane and Tech 21 were original, patented (In the USA) circuits , not copies out of old radio manuals.

It's bad enough that we all look the other way when manufacturers (in the USA and abroad) blatantly ripped off the zendrive but I refuse to support joyo because they are next next step worse.

A lot of the circuits in guitar pedals are straight out of electronics textbooks. Probably fairly few boutique makers are developing their circuits from the ground up.

[jads57]

Bad enough when companies steal each other's intelletual property/designs. But I really hate when small builders are targeted. Paul Cochrane is a really good guy, who makes really good products which I've owned. And still own a Timmy pedal, which he sells for a very reasonable price.

[jzucker]

Agreed. It's not like his pedals are inflated like some of the ridiculous $599 zendrive clones being made in japan. A timmy sells for $129 ...

Bad enough when companies steal each other's intelletual property/designs. But I really hate when small builders are targeted. Paul Cochrane is a really good guy, who makes really good products which I've owned. And still own a Timmy pedal, which he sells for a very reasonable price.

[Spook410]

- As for Joyo, if there is a patent infringement that should be enforced. If not then circuits are copies of copies of inspired by and non-patented circuits are fair game. Of course that's not all there is to making a pedal and lots of us shell out for Empress and Strymon because it's more than a circuit and programming.

- Cabinet/Amp simulation: Many of us run archtops through things like AER / Schertler / Bose. The goal is to extract the acoustic sound and we're not always looking for constrained frequency range of a guitar amplifier. Both have their place, but the OP mentioned he ran an AER.

[jorgemg1984]

I tried and won't recommend using a preamp like the Kingsley into an AER. It's the worst of both worlds, imagine a Twin Reverb with a closed back ported cab and a PA speaker...

Cab simulation is mandatory, IMO. Even more than the preamp. Guitar speakers do much more than reducing the frequency spectrum, otherwise, a PA with a high cut on 5K would sound like a guitar speaker and it doesn't, I tried it.

[Klatu]

I tried and won't recommend using a preamp like the Kingsley into an AER. It's the worst of both worlds, imagine a Twin Reverb with a closed back ported cab and a PA speaker...

Cab simulation is mandatory, IMO. Even more than the preamp. Guitar speakers do much more than reducing the frequency spectrum, otherwise, a PA with a high cut on 5K would sound like a guitar speaker and it doesn't, I tried it.

What about something like an Atomic Amplifire into an Acoustic Image Clarus?

[jorgemg1984]

What about something like an Atomic Amplifire into an Acoustic Image Clarus?

In theory, it should work! The amplifire has amp and cab simulations.

But... Unless one already has an AI, there are much cheaper PA speakers that should do the work at least as well, if not better. And I was not the biggest fan of the amplifire for cleans; when I had one I just used for effects, cab simulation and DI - I used a preamp before it.

[Spook410]

I tried and won't recommend using a preamp like the Kingsley into an AER. It's the worst of both worlds, imagine a Twin Reverb with a closed back ported cab and a PA speaker...

Cab simulation is mandatory, IMO. Even more than the preamp. Guitar speakers do much more than reducing the frequency spectrum, otherwise, a PA with a high cut on 5K would sound like a guitar speaker and it doesn't, I tried it.

Good points but you may not want to sound like a guitar amplifier. And you're right that you can't rely on the console for EQ. Ranges aren't set up for guitar. You need to use something with EQ designed with guitar in mind. Also I think the OP has an AER but the preamp is needed to run into a PA.

[tonyp145]

A little outside the box, but if you want to sound like you’re playing through an old tube amp with that warmth and a hint of grit try the Jr Barnyard pedal by Nocturne Brain. I just got mine last week so I’m still in the honeymoon period but it combines beautifully with my L-7C through my PA (Fishman 330 line array). Gives a real 50s jazz tone, it’s worth a try. Here’s a link:

The JR BARNYARD™ – The Nocturne Brain

[jzucker]

A guy making $50k a year doing pedals doesn't have a corporate law division on staff.

- As for Joyo, if there is a patent infringement that should be enforced. If not then circuits are copies of copies of inspired by and non-patented circuits are fair game. Of course that's not all there is to making a pedal and lots of us shell out for Empress and Strymon because it's more than a circuit and programming.

- Cabinet/Amp simulation: Many of us run archtops through things like AER / Schertler / Bose. The goal is to extract the acoustic sound and we're not always looking for constrained frequency range of a guitar amplifier. Both have their place, but the OP mentioned he ran an AER.

[jzucker]

In theory, it should work! The amplifire has amp and cab simulations.

But... Unless one already has an AI, there are much cheaper PA speakers that should do the work at least as well, if not better. And I was not the biggest fan of the amplifire for cleans; when I had one I just used for effects, cab simulation and DI - I used a preamp before it.

my experience is that the AI is not a good candidate for amp modeling. You'd be better off with an alto TS210a powered cab. More power and transparancy

[christianm77]

Try an American Sound, for $30 or something.

A sound engineer I was working with told me he preferred it to SansAmp because it compresses less.

It runs on batteries which is a bonus for me in terms of practicality.

[Spook410]

A guy making $50k a year doing pedals doesn't have a corporate law division on staff.

Doesn't take a lawyer. If he has a patent/copyright/trademark that's being infringed on he needs to contact Amazon. They won't intentionally sell an illegal/stolen/forged product. Fly-by-nights might get away with it in small batches but Joyo is no longer small and has been around for years.

Thing is.. it's very hard to patent a circuit or an idea or lines of code. It seems unlikely we're talking about theft.

It's not that I don't see your point.. it all seems unfair. But it's all about the cost of production and getting to market in a global marketplace, not malfeasance.

[christianm77]

I don’t quite get why this is any different from companies cloning a tubescreamer circuit or a fender amp circuit. Is it a licensing thing? Or is just cos Tech 21 is a smaller operation? Or both?

EDIT: I see from above its a royalties thing.
That’s pretty crap. I won’t buy anything else from joyo then.

Anyway, I was quite impressed by the samples of the AMT twin style preamp (the F2?) but I haven’t tried it myself.

[jorgemg1984]

Good points but you may not want to sound like a guitar amplifier. And you're right that you can't rely on the console for EQ. Ranges aren't set up for guitar. You need to use something with EQ designed with guitar in mind. Also I think the OP has an AER but the preamp is needed to run into a PA.

I agree. My point is that if you to avoid the guitar amp sound, use a neutral eq like a graphic or a parametric. Using a Fender or Dumble preamp won't sound good, in that case (IMO).

[christianm77]

I’m looking forward to giving the Milkman box a try (what’s it called?)