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I have a Collings AT-17 that is so responsive, when I play around the higher frets, especially on the unwound strings, a loud high pitched note emerges from the soundbox. I'm not talking string squeak. The note appears when I am fretting a note, not sliding up to it. It is especially prominent, and sustaining as well, when I apply vibrato. The frets do not feel particularly rough, but I suspect a fret polishing may solve the issue. Anyone have any experience and/or insight about this?
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02-20-2018 05:24 PM
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Could it be a harmonic? It's possible that the pitch is also the resonant frequency of the portion of a string behind the bridge or the nut.
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I doubt it, but I'm not knowledgeable enough to dismiss it outright. It's not a pure bell-like tone that I associate with harmonics. It's a sustainy, squealy sound.
Originally Posted by omphalopsychos
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You are fortunate to have an AT-17. They are simply exquisite. Have you tried different strings? Does the squeak persist after using a different brand/gauge or metal (phosphor bronze vs nickel for example). I understand it’s mostly on unwound strings but I’ve heard certain PB strings make unmusical sounds on low action guitars when, unmuted, they vibrate against frets while the playing other strings.
Heaven forbid a loose brace. I’d check every attachment point first (pickguard to neck, if it has a pickup—pickup to pickguard). It could also be the truss rod. Adjust the rod a bit and see if the squeak goes away. Sorry I’m not more help. Good luck and best wishes to you!
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Thank you. Yes, the guitar is a dream come true. Originally Posted by rolijen
Yes, the squeak occurs with every string change. The guitar has no pickup. I've used PB and 80/20 strings, never nickel.
Hard for me to imagine that it is a brace or the truss rod, but I will check all the attachments when I get home today.
The more I think about it, the sound is similar to the sound that results when you rub the edge of a crystal glass.
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I had a friend who's favorite guitar was a Country Gentelman; he told me once, while he was recording, he had the same issues. I asked him how he fixed it and he said the Engineer told him to run his left hand through his hair, Wah Lah, didn't hear it anymore. If I had hair I'd give it a try.
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Very hard to help diagnose over the forum. Do you know exactly where the sound is coming from? One trick I use is to identify the offending note, stick a capo on it and keep plucking it, while moving a microphone around the guitar and wearing headphones. This helps you to narrow the field of your hearing so that you can isolate the vibrating component. Hopefully it's something as simple as the pickguard bracket.
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I’m sure you’ve tried muting the strings between the bridge and tailpiece? And between the nut and tuners? I do know that some tailpieces add zing and sometimes undesirably so. Try a sock between the tailpiece and body just as another test.
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I could be wrong, but it seems unlikely to me that a vibrating component is causing the problem. You don't even have to pluck the string. If you just apply vibrato to an unwound string in the higher registers, it starts to squeal. Originally Posted by omphalopsychos
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Sounds worth a try. I hadn't thought of doing that. Originally Posted by rolijen
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I do have hair, but I don't think that will help, as applying vibrato without changing the finger's contact point with the string will set off the sound. Originally Posted by Donnie
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Damp the strings between the bridge and tailpiece, either by right hand, or sock poked between the strings, or foam, felt, sponge... If the problem sound disappears you know one of those string lengths is resonating. Figure out which one by removing the damping and playing the note that causes the problem, then immediately touching the individual strings behind the bridge to damp them and hear which one damped makes the problem sound go quiet.
There are special damping devices that are used to do resolve this. You can use anything (sponge, felt, leather...) and do it yourself; the commercial ones are typically designed not to be intrusive or visible.
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I'll try that and report back. I hadn't thought about resonance between bridge and tailpiece because both bridge and tailpiece are ebony, which has damping properties. But definitely worth a go. Originally Posted by pauln
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agree ^
try putting a piece of foam under strings between tailpiece and bridge...tall enough to act as damper
if the problem stops, you know thats the issue and can fine tune from there
much buzzing and wolf tones occur from poor angles between guitar components
cheers
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It's neither buzzing or wolf tones, but whatever it is, if the foam works I'll be relieved. Originally Posted by neatomic
agree ^
try putting a piece of foam under strings between tailpiece and bridge...tall enough to act as damper
if the problem stops, you know thats the issue and can fine tune from there
much buzzing and wolf tones occur from poor angles between guitar components
cheers
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When I first bought my Santa Cruz in 1998 I played it in and when winter hit some of the material around the frets shrank enough for some of the frets to sing in their slots. It took Wayne Henderson all of 10 seconds to diagnose the offenders and he used really thin glue to stop the offenders. It was a certain few notes that would set the offenders to ringing and it was a very pure piercing tone like the one described here. The weird thing is it’s not likely to be the fret being used, it’s just the notes that you are playing that have the same resonant frequency that makes the offenders act like a tuning fork. It may even be only one fret. I never would have expected it if I hadn’t seen it myself.
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Sorry to use the word offenders so much! Originally Posted by fitflatpicker
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If it's not another string vibrating sympathetically (and I find that is very common), the vibration of strings between the bridge and tailpiece may be the culprit. I get a lot of ringing there with my 18" Wu archtop. My solution is a piece of vacuum cleaner belt, cut to length, and threaded between the strings. It's not the most beautiful solution, but it's cheap and it works. Some Velcro also works, with the strings between the hook and loop sides, but rubber works better. Some people use rubber grommets, often in artistic patterns. I would probably use them, but I haven't found a source for the right size at the right price.
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So I stuffed a cloth underneath the strings between the bridge and the tailpiece, and it did nothing.
I am now leaning back in the direction of my original thought that the super-responsive box is amplifying the sound of strings rubbing against frets in need of polishing. The effect occurs only when I apply vibrato, not when I simply fret a note. Also it occurs on the first and third strings in the same areas if the fretboard. If it were a resonant frequency issue, wouldn't it involve just a single note?
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Harmonics are a series of frequencies. If something resonates, it doesn't do it at just one frequency, but also at all its harmonics, and those harmonics can be a harmonic of other frequencies. So it's not impossible for what you're hearing to be the result of harmonics. It is impossible to make a definitive diagnosis without hearing and seeing the issue, though.
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Yeah, I'm probably going to have to bring it to Gryphon (I live in the SF Bay Area) to have them look at it. Unfortunately, I just put on a new set of strings and would hate to waste them if they need to be removed for a fret polishing. I am fortunate in that strings tend to last a long time with me. Originally Posted by sgosnell
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Strings are consumables. You should expect to replace them regularly. I hate to do it too, and that's why I refuse to buy expensive strings like TI. I buy perfectly fine strings for under $10, and don't lose any sleep if I have to change them because of some other needed guitar work. It's hard, but sometimes a bullet must be bitten.
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I suppose it's more an issue of the time spent changing the strings. Strings seems to last a long time for me, and changing them is an event (usually accompanied by a few pierced fingertips). Originally Posted by sgosnell
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It just means you need more practice.
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Place a capo on the guitar on one of the early frets (1-3), and see if the issue still occurs when playing the high notes. It could be that the length of string between the nut and the fretted note is vibrating sympathetically at a harmonic of the intended pitch. Using a capo will change that length of string while keeping the fretted pitch the same, hence it can be used to rule this out.
Does the unwanted tone always have the same pitch, or is its pitch variable depending on the fretted note? Have you tried damping the back and/or the top near the bridge to see if you can quiet or silence it? That would help isolate if the instrument's intrinsic resonance is the culprit, vs. a string or fret issue.
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