Why do all old Polytones have a replacement speaker?

[jorgemg1984]

The classic Metheny sound is (or was, anyway) through a clean, flat response, solid-state amp (Acoustic 134, usually 3 of them at a time). Stripped of his extensive effects rig, it's essentially a bigger, louder Polytone. So it's not surprising to me that he'd get his sound out of a Polytone. But it's also true that most of what makes him sound like him is the way he plays, not the gear he uses.

Agreed.

[ruger9]

So... perhaps.... the Polytone can be partly "blamed" for the "muffled jazz tone" being what is thought of as "jazz tone" these days??? That's kind of what I hear, on both the Pass and Methany videos... the Rosenwinkel video is hard because he's using reverb and delay.

I prefer the 5E3 "Midnight Blue" sound of Burrell. Still thick, but not missing high end... those 2 particular Pass/Methany tones to me sound like the tone control on the guitar is rolled off... does the Polytone have a role in making that tone?

[st.bede]

(I have settled on running both a Henriksen Jazz amp, and a tweed deluxe clone, together).

[pauln]

Try playing Bill Evans "Peace Piece" on guitar or something.

[lawson-stone]

i gotta say after playing for some time now through my Fender Tone Master Twin Reverb, especially with the L5ces or copies thereof, I am really hooked on this sound. I haven't really been tempted to fire up my Polytones.

[Chris236]

i gotta say after playing for some time now through my Fender Tone Master Twin Reverb, especially with the L5ces or copies thereof, I am really hooked on this sound. I haven't really been tempted to fire up my Polytones.

I’m gonna say in a perfect world a Deluxe Reverb would be my preference but the lack of volume, headroom, obscene weight of a twin plus the fragile nature of all these amps makes the Polytone an acceptable compromise for me. They (save the reverb) are virtually indestructible, predictable sound-wise in any room and are relatively cheap. That said (except for the price) the Mambo is a better amp in every way.

[lawson-stone]

I’m gonna say in a perfect world a Deluxe Reverb would be my preference but the lack of volume, headroom, obscene weight of a twin plus the fragile nature of all these amps makes the Polytone an acceptable compromise for me. They (save the reverb) are virtually indestructible, predictable sound-wise in any room and are relatively cheap. That said (except for the price) the Mambo is a better amp in every way.

The Tone Master Twin Reverb is quite light, lighter than the Polytone actually. And it's solid state and durable. I also seriously doubt anyone listening live would know it's not a classic tube twin reverb.

[Cavalier]

I still use my master volume tube Twin, and others. I find rotating amps and guitars is good for your touch as you work with different responses. A hand truck handles the weight.
Speaking of the other neo Eminence 15 I mentioned on another Polytone thread it is the 4ohm EPS-15C pedal steel speaker. It can handle 300 watts compared to the Deltalite's 200 but with more top end. Looks like it is on sale now but sold out.
I am wondering if there will be a George Benson ToneMaster coming out.

[No_Jazz_Guitarist]

Polytone Mini Brute I, with cab from Tube-Town in Germany.
The speakers are 2 x 12 inch 16 ohm: Celestion Greenback + Jensen Blackbird 40

[No_Jazz_Guitarist]

[No_Jazz_Guitarist]

Now, to the sound.

I’m, as the name implies, no jazz guitarist.
I’m not after the woolly Joe Pass sound.

You can coax many different sounds out of a Polytone Mini Brute.

The switch is on ’’Bright’’, the volume is barely above 2.

I use effects: hall reverb, optical compressor, light overdrive and the Friedman Buxom Boost.

Without effects I find the sound sharpish.

I have 2 tube amps and several Solid State ones.

I’m happy with the Polytone setup.

Guitar:
Vintage Joe Doe - Lucky Buck Telecaster with a singlecoil and a P90.
Single coil is my preference.

[vintagelove]

If you haven't used an eq pedal with a Polytone, you would be very surprised what can be done. Much of the sound is in the tonestack, and with the eq you can coax a very familiar fender shape. You can also boost the volume a TON.

[jorgemg1984]

If you haven't used an eq pedal with a Polytone, you would be very surprised what can be done. Much of the sound is in the tonestack, and with the eq you can coax a very familiar fender shape. You can also boost the volume a TON.

I always use my Zoom's graphic eq in front of the Polytone, helps a lot.

[6v6ster]

Back to the speaker question, here’s something to consider (I’ve been a tech for all manner of tube audio equip for over 20 years)-
there are many filters in an amp on the way from guitar to hitting our ears.
The speaker is the final and most radical filter. The speaker is about 40-50% of any amp’s sound! It also effects the feel of the amp and how the amp reacts. So, a lot needs to go into speaker choice.

if I wanted the original PT sound, I’d check out what was originally in there (someone mentioned CTS, those are easy to find still). I only work with tube stuff so sorry I don’t have more to offer for PTs.

[st.bede]

Polytone Mini Brute I, with cab from Tube-Town in Germany.
The speakers are 2 x 12 inch 16 ohm: Celestion Greenback + Jensen Blackbird 40

A good clip of how that sounds would be much appreciated. Blues, Jazz, Country, Polka… I am good with anything non fx and clean… I just want to hear it.

[JCat]

Polka… I am good with anything

Enjoy the Polka King of the Midwest

[st.bede]

… why do I feel like that is my life … ?

I have never seen that movie.

[JCat]

… why do I feel like that is my life … ?

"Everybody Polka" as the saying goes.

While waiting for a good sound clip of the true Polytone sound, some intermission entertainment:

I could swear I saw a Polytone in the back line, no?

[Dorsal1]

Back to the speaker question, here’s something to consider (I’ve been a tech for all manner of tube audio equip for over 20 years)-
there are many filters in an amp on the way from guitar to hitting our ears.
The speaker is the final and most radical filter. The speaker is about 40-50% of any amp’s sound! It also effects the feel of the amp and how the amp reacts. So, a lot needs to go into speaker choice.

if I wanted the original PT sound, I’d check out what was originally in there (someone mentioned CTS, those are easy to find still). I only work with tube stuff so sorry I don’t have more to offer for PTs.

I'm fairly sure that Eminance was the source of the speakers used in the late runs by Polytone. I just bought a MegaBrute on Reverb and it arrived in damaged condition, with the reverb tank pulled out of its mounting and one leg of the speaker folded - must have been dropped hard on its face, the box was pretty messed up. Thanks, UPS.

In any case, I need to replace the 8-inch, 4-Ohm speaker. My search has come up with three alternatives, and wondering if anyone has any comments on these or other recommendations:

1. Eminance Alpha 8A American Standard - 8 Ohms, 125W/250W "program power" power rating, 94dB sensitivity, 58 - 5 KHz range
2. Eminance Beta 8A American Standard - 8 Ohms, 225W/450W "program power" power rating, 95.1dB sensitivity, 78 - 4.5 KHz range
3. Ciare CMR200 - 4 Ohms, 120W RMS/250W "Max" power rating, 96dB sensitivity, 80 - 6 KHz range.

I've never heard of Ciare, nor know of anyone using one, but like that it's a 4-Ohm speaker. Eminance is a known quantity, but only comes in 8-Ohm versions.

[Gitterbug]

Ciare is a new name to me, although I've been dealing with Italian-made speakers for years. Speaker manufacturing was a priority in Italy's government-led industrialization program of the 1950s and thereafter. That's why you still have so many manufacturers. Ciare appears to be a sub-brand of B&C, a premium maker, which also encompasses the Eighteen Sound brand.

So: Quality? Probably impeccable. Sound quality? No idea, but domestic market alone should keep it competitive.

[sgosnell]

I've heard of it, but never heard one that I know of.

[Tom Wright]

I can say the Eminence 8" Beta is a sweet item. Very smooth, gentle midrange. I use it in a single-8 cab for folk dances, playing my acoustic 10-string mandolin, or have performed and recorded using a two-8" cab and my electric 10-string. Amp is the Trace Elliott Elf.