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Would you mind cross-posting this reply in the other threads too so that readers of those threads have fuller context? Thank you!
Originally Posted by timjgbeun
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04-18-2023 10:15 AM
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My apologies if this has been covered already. Does anyone know what my options are for replacing the speaker in my 8” Megabrute?
Purchased here years ago with a blown speaker and I had it repaired…..I’m wondering if there’s a higher rated option that will remain clean at the top of the amp’s output range? If I remember correctly the challenge was finding something both 8” and 4ohms?
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Originally Posted by omphalopsychos
No, I did enough good deeds for the day posting to 4 already. There is no "context" needed. It is a speaker recommendation, nothing more is needed, lol. Someone asks what speaker. I answer. End of story. Is this forum really full of uptight people asking others to explain themselves over every little simple thing? If so I'm out. As they say, I guess no good deed goes unpunished. I'll stick to gearspace, thegearpage, diyaudio, groupdiy, etc and not bother the jazz geeks here then if it's so uptight and analytical here, tho that is a typical jazzguy mindset to an extent. Yet I'm a jazz nerd too and geek out on theory and gear but that is where it ends...the music and gear.
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Wow! That's a defensive reaction! I never said it was wrong or complained about you doing it. I simply observed someone resurrecting four old threads with the same post and was curious. I'm glad you care so much that you want to share this information with as many people as possible. You could have simply replied, "So everyone on all the related threads can see it" and ended it there. No need for histrionics. Originally Posted by timjgbeun
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Most gear threads don't go bad from age, people in the past and future are desperate for good answers if they did not get good ones the first time around. I have found and shared gold in old so called decades old "dead" threads, I love bringing old threads back with updated info, the right answer, the new piece of gear, the solution to the issue, etc. The internet is forever, it is for everyone past present and future people looking for answers, I do not get when people have a prob w old threads being brought back. New good info is just that. That is the point of forums, to get a good answer. If none were given 10 years ago, but now someone has the answer, that is a gift of gold to not only the orig posters, if they are still around, but for future people to get the answer. So it is great to bring back threads with better updated info. I was not posting spam, just sharing. Sharing is caring, lol. Originally Posted by jazzshrink
Funny I rarely ever visit or post here, and the one time I try and do something nice 2 people jump on it for reasons unrelated to the subject, ie the 15 speaker. Talk about that. Stay on subject. That is what I'm here for, and that is it. Is everyone that suspicious looking to police threads as if I'm a spammer? I don't work for eminence or any store geez. This place is funny. I'll stick with the real gear forums from now on and let you all argue amongst yourselves who is up to no good if they post somewhat out of the ordinary. As much as I dig music and being a musician, its often the people into either jazz or punk (or worse both) be them musicians or fans, that are pretentious and/or always looking suspiciously at others, that is in real life. But in jazz forums too? lol i'm outta here. At least I hope I entertained some of you with "histrionics". And a good speaker recommendation. Peace out. Try playing Bill Evans "Peace Piece" on guitar or something.
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Again, wow. Far from being "entertained", I'm actually saddened by the fact you feel persecuted as a result of a simple inquiry. I'm not aware of anyone accusing you of being a spammer or a shill. I am a bit put off by your labeling jazz musicians and fans as being "uptight", overly suspicious and "pretentious". That's unfair and unnecessary. By all means, you should post to forums in which you feel comfortable and understood. I don't think you should write off JGO over this perceived slight, however. Peace (Horace Silver).
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I know nothing about what is going in in this thread… but I saw your question . Originally Posted by Chris236
I am not an expert, but I thought it was important to try and help. I would start by checking what Henriksen uses. I think they are named beta 8. I think they are Jensens. This is just from my memory, and I could be completely wrong.
Also from my memory, speakers can handle different ohms as long as they are rated fro the top ohm. My memory gets things backwards all the time, so double check on that.
I think the difficulty is getting an 8 inch speaker to handle the watts.
…. I just read the whole thread… there are some good answers in it… the craziness is not that much, and it just made me sad.. it seems like some accidentally miscommunication, and some past experiences that have had an impact.
I was wrong not Jenson but Eminence.
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The standard ( speaker used by "jazz amps" these days is the Eminence Beta 8 (Henriksen, Mambo, etc...) That would be my first bet .- although I never tried it. You might loose some volume, because it's an 8 ohm speaker - or not, if it's significantly more efficient than the stock speaker. Originally Posted by Chris236
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Thank you both. I’ll look into the Eminence. I’m a little clueless about speaker math and didn’t realize I could use anything other than a 4ohm speaker with the Polytone.
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Relax, I'm just having a little fun after a long day, all meant lightheartedly, I'm just messing around, not really serious, hence my lols. I just find it funny after decades on other guitar and audio forums never having any probs or similar responses, yet the one time I post here it gets odd right off the bat. I have multi posted on old threads on other forums many times and never got no flack comments, so just having a little fun back on the seeming oddness of this forum, which may be an anomaly, I don't know. Let's talk about the speaker please, or any other aspect of gear, tone, recording, etc. Originally Posted by jazzshrink
And again about "jazz guys"...I am playing around to an extent on a stereotype of the more recent era of college jazz degree nerd berklee grads and similar schools arguing over theory or whatever, vibing other players, with rich parents forking over roughly 50k a year for most of them to end up not being able to make a living playing music. Upper middle class privilege they dont even see, which infects the music. Yeah I may have a chip on my shoulder lol. Maybe that attitude does not exist as much in europe, being this is jazz.be maybe there are more european players here, more open minded not as american tradition locked, I dont know, but that attitude is less among non american players, which is good, you dont want it...snobby and pretentious.
Older era berklee players I enjoy...the 60s and 70s guys, and a few later, but it has become a generic factory more recently, churning out advanced level players who all sound the same lacking personality, soul, feel, etc. For that reason for newer jazz I like euro jazz and other places outside of the US. My latest obsession is the new younger jazz players and labels from Argentina, great fresh jazz coming from there, and it does NOT sound latin or south american or ethnic at all...none of that percussion, we are talking more abstract non trad jazz, really surprising and unique. Branch out some time from the american stuff and standards, there is so much great fresh new non US based jazz more recently, on bandcamp and spotify, from seemingly out of nowhere, non US based great stuff from a younger generation who are NOT berklee grads, and hence far more unique with their own voice the berk grads mostly lack. That is what happens when jazz becomes an academic subject. And I am US based...just bored of the more recent american jazz scene and it's players for the most part. Rant on, rant off. Just having a little fun here. The other forums I go to are audio not jazz, so I'm letting a little jazz rant steam off, lightheartedly again, even tho may not sound it, I'm a pretty mellow fellow. I'll show myself the door now before you guys boot me off lol. Try that speaker tho!
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Let's talk about this. -Isn't this true in a wider context, regardless of amp?; the speaker has a direct and absolute impact on tone and feel. It's partly a matter of the speaker itself and its individual properties, but also (and this is complicated) its interaction with any particular amp; Originally Posted by Stringswinger
A speaker is rated for a fixed impedance, e.g 8 ohms, but in reality its impedance is a moving target that fluctuates with frequency. The speaker interacts with the output of the amp, meaning the amp is in fact affected by the load (speaker), meaning that when we change speaker, we are also changing the way the amp responds, almost like we would have changed the amp...
The amp and speaker is a system, which in turn is a subsystem to the great puzzle; the complete signal chain from strings, pickups, electronics, cables, pedalboard going into the amp and any microphone and mixer coming after the speaker (Electric guitar is a universe. Never gets boring). But the single most influential tone shaping component that has an immediate and direct impact on the sound in the room and the feel of the rig is the speaker, this is what hits our ears. When recording and mixing, we try to make the track sound good on many different hi-fi systems, i.e we verify the mix on different monitors, headphones, in the car, in mono etc. In other words we go to great length trying to make the recording independent of hi-fi speakers. But the musician, creating live music for an audience or a record depends on the sound in the room and the direct feedback from his guitar speaker. For me, the speaker is as important as the guitar in my hands, sometimes even more important, because even if can swap guitars in a heartbeat, I can't swap a guitar speaker without direct consequences.
When we plug into an old combo and smile, we say "what a great amp!". -What if most of it is about the speaker? We wouldn't know until we have put in a different speaker...so this is what we do; the quest is about matching an amp with the right speaker.
Players like to collect guitars and amps. That's cool, just remember that it's the speaker that ultimately is what we hear. Speakers are hidden inside a cab, but even when we can't see them, this is where the music comes from.
I'm not into the Polytone thing and can't comment on its original speaker, but I have no reasons to believe that the Polytone would be different from any other amp and speaker system (tube or SS) with regards to speaker matching, i.e trial and error. I trust that only an original Polytone speaker sounds like an original Polytone speaker, because this is how it works.
Long post (sorry) but a fascinating subject. The tone quest is a long and beautiful journey. At the end of the rainbow you'll find...a speaker.
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Just to be clear, if I remember correctly the Polytone power amp can handle 4 ohm and higher, so you only need to avoid 2 ohm speakers (a rarity). Also, if I remember correctly, the stock Polytone speaker is 4 ohm - which means if you go with a 8 ohm speaker like the suggested Eminence you might loose a little volume (3db, if the power amp behaves as expected), depending on both speakers sensitivity rating. Originally Posted by Chris236
The Eminence has a (quite high) sensitivity of 95db, the Polytone is unknown, but I would estimate less. If the Polytone stock speaker's sensitivity is 90db, you actually gain 2db of volume - the 5db sensitivity difference minus the 3db loss due to the rise in impedance.
8 inch Eminence American Standard Series Replacement Speaker
– Eminence Speaker, LLC
All this to say it's very unlikely you'll loose volume by putting a Beta 8 speaker in your Polytone, you might even gain a little - and the power amp will run cooler which is also good. There may be a change in tone, but I don't think it will be that big.
You could also contact Eminence and ask them - I believe they made the Polytone OEM speaker. If that's the case, they can tell you the tonal differences between the Beta 8 and the Polytone speaker. I suspect the Polytone speaker is just a 4 ohm version of that speaker, in order to get more volume out of the power amp, but I'm just speculating.
Bear in mind I've learned this stuff by need, not by education - so there may be some inaccuracy in my writings, which will for sure be quickly corrected by the forum members who do understand this matters.
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Originally Posted by st.bede
Originally Posted by jorgemg1984
The stock speaker in the Megabrute will distort well before you’ve maxed out the output of the amp so I’m guessing the beta8 will result in a net increase in power. We’ll see! Originally Posted by jorgemg1984
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Originally Posted by timjgbeun
[awkward silence]
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I have that speaker in a small, Henriksen style enclosure. Haven't tried it with a polytone, but it sounds great with a bunch of amps I've tried. I believe it's a bass speaker originally?The standard ( speaker used by "jazz amps" these days is the Eminence Beta 8 (Henriksen, Mambo, etc...)
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I’m a Berklee guy from the 90’s and have been a professional all of my adult life….lucky or unlucky depending on how you look at it…hah. Most of the change there has been in the last couple of decades as the “business(lol)” ,and world in general, has changed I gather. There is no, nor ever has there been an assembly line “churning out advanced but generic players” and like any educational experience, it is what you make it. Always some who have a ‘voice’, some who are trying to speak with someone else’s and mostly those who still are trying to learn the language…… Originally Posted by timjgbeun
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Yeah, it's a bass speaker. Solid state amps tend to be high power (say, 200 watts) and not many guitar speakers handle that, it's easier to use bass speakers. I put a EVM12L once in an Henriksen and it sounded spectacular, if you could bear the price and the weight Originally Posted by Alter
I believe I tried all Eminence Beta versions at one point and the 8 was by far my favorite - and in general I prefer 10 or 12 speakers.
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So I'll ask the question here... but if there is an old thread discussing this, if anyone could direct me to it....?
WHAT IS THE POLYTONE SOUND?
As opposed to well-known and widely-used amps, like Princetons and Tweed Deluxes, etc? What makes the Polytone unique in it's tone?
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Here’s a classic example Originally Posted by ruger9
I think “unique” is debatable. It’s a clean(ish) preamp + high-headroom power amp, with relatively flat frequency response (in contrast to the scooped Fender sound). There have always been other amps that do that (at least within some portion of the range of their settings). You can find other videos of Pass playing through a Twin Reverb where he really doesn’t sound very different from the Polytone set-up.
What Polytone did back in the day that was unusual was put that in a relatively small and portable package (compared to, say, Standel or Lab Series). Because of that, it became the default jazz guitar amp. It’s a good sound that complements the typical mid-heavy tone of archtops. So it persists.
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I was going to post the exact same clip John posted - it's the best example I know of the Polytone sound. Originally Posted by ruger9
Another example, in a much more modern setting, would be this
I believe every record made by Kurt until (and including) "The Remedy" was done with his 1x15 Polytone (excepet "Intuit", played with a Twin Reverb). "East Coast Love Affair" is a good source to hear the amp's sound. Comparing "Intuit" and "East Coast Love Affair" is a great way to compare the same player trough a Twin or a Polytone.
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And Pat - playing through the 2x10
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That's really cool, Metheny with a Polytone - I had no idea that existed. Thanks for the sare! Originally Posted by Chris236
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and if all this variation isn’t enough evidence that player influence overrides equipment variables I’m not sure what is. Originally Posted by jorgemg1984
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Agreed. Someone with a strong voice, like Metheny, will sound like him trough almost anything. It still doesn't put me in the gear doesn't matter, it's all in the fingers camp, but it's certainly food for thought. Originally Posted by Chris236
and if all this variation isn’t enough evidence that player influence overrides equipment variables I’m not sure what is.
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The classic Metheny sound is (or was, anyway) through a clean, flat response, solid-state amp (Acoustic 134, usually 3 of them at a time). Stripped of his extensive effects rig, it's essentially a bigger, louder Polytone. So it's not surprising to me that he'd get his sound out of a Polytone. But it's also true that most of what makes him sound like him is the way he plays, not the gear he uses. Originally Posted by jorgemg1984
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