Chicago Music Exchange Memphis coming to an end:(

**johnnytuinals** · 01-24-2018, 01:47 PM

Myself I got 2 New 2017 ES 335 and a New 2017 ES 330 both in Natural from CME
Glad I did not buy any of the 2015 Sam ash deals that's if you want to use the word when
a company unloads something most people would not want.......JT

**Stringswinger** · 01-24-2018, 01:55 PM

Of the 4 CME Gibsons that I bought, only 1 had any flaws and the flaws were VERY minor and easily fixable. I do believe that this blowout has softened the market for used Gibson ES guitars. It may take awhile for that market to recover. One thing is certain, until CME runs out and stops selling 175's and 335's at these low prices, the market will remain depressed. NOW is the time to buy a 175 or 335, whether from CME or the used market.

I will say this, the Gibsons that I have owned from the 2000's were not of the same quality as the Gibsons that I own/have owned from the 90's. These 2016/2017 Gibsons that I have bought are of the highest quality. We hear about the horror stories (many of which get blown way out of proportion) but many (most?) of us who participated in this blowout got screaming deals on great guitars.

I paid more for 2 of my CME deals than I would have had I waited (they reduced the price on those two after I had already bought them, so I understand how some might feel who paid even more than I did). That is the free market folks. You pays your money and you takes your chances. Buying at the bottom and selling at the top would be so much easier if we had a crystal ball. Guitars, like all things can, and will, fluctuate in value. But the joy of playing a guitar that inspires your playing is priceless.

**rolijen** · 01-24-2018, 06:35 PM

Originally Posted by Stringswinger

.

Originally Posted by Stringswinger

..These 2016/2017 Gibsons that I have bought are of the highest quality.

...Guitars, like all things can, and will, fluctuate in value. But the joy of playing a guitar that inspires your playing is priceless.

Amen, brother. The CME 1959 ES-175 VOS I acquired just before Christmas is awesome in every way. The best of any 175 I’ve owned. The build is excellent and the set of MHS pickups in it are the real deal. Open and airy with clarity and yet plenty of classic 175 bark. I’m grateful.

**Stringswinger** · 01-24-2018, 06:40 PM

Originally Posted by rolijen

Amen, brother. The CME 1959 ES-175 VOS I acquired just before Christmas is awesome in every way. The best of any 175 I’ve owned. The build is excellent and the set of MHS pickups in it are the real deal. Open and airy with clarity and yet plenty of classic 175 bark. I’m grateful.

Of the 4 CME Gibsons I bought, the 1959 VOS 175 is the one that blows me away the most. It is an amazing guitar. MHS PUPS? I may need to install those in every Gibson I own. If you ask me, Gibson is at the top of their game.

**vinnyv1k** · 01-24-2018, 07:36 PM

Dang....wish I could have bagged a good 59 VOS 175. All the ones they sent me were turds.

**QAman** · 01-24-2018, 07:56 PM

Originally Posted by vinnyv1k

Dang....wish I could have bagged a good 59 VOS 175. All the ones they sent me were turds.

Vinny,
I want a single pickup ES-175 59 ‘ VOS. There is one for sale here on the forum - but seller non responsive. I actually had a real 59 ‘with a single PAF in 1989 and sold it to Hap Kufner . Then I picked up a 61’ double pickup and sold that a few years later. They were great guitars - light weight and woody sounding.

**johnnytuinals** · 01-24-2018, 11:14 PM

Hummmm I think Most of the good Guitars are GONE
I am happy with my 2017 ES335 Figured in Natural and my 2017 ES330 in Natural VOS with Bigsby.
I am sure most are very happy at what they have got.
Myself I would not sell any of them or anything else I have bought within the last 6 years.
I would love too buy another CME ES guitar(BB King in ebony or cherry or ES355 with Bigsby}
But by looking on the CME website all the good guitars are GONE and have Zero interest
on the Cheaper ones..............................JT

**vinnyv1k** · 01-25-2018, 03:37 PM

Originally Posted by QAman

Vinny,
I want a single pickup ES-175 59 ‘ VOS. There is one for sale here on the forum - but seller non responsive. I actually had a real 59 ‘with a single PAF in 1989 and sold it to Hap Kufner . Then I picked up a 61’ double pickup and sold that a few years later. They were great guitars - light weight and woody sounding.

I had a super nice 2014 59 VOS 175. It was perfect. The guy that bought my DAQ made me a offer I couldn’t refuse. He came just to buy the DAQ and walk away with 5 of my guitars. Boy my wife was happy that day.
Her joy was short lived. I had to immediately replenish. :-)

**Woody Sound** · 01-25-2018, 04:00 PM

Originally Posted by vinnyv1k

Dang....wish I could have bagged a good 59 VOS 175. All the ones they sent me were turds.

I wonder what they did with the turds that were returned?

**ovidius** · 01-26-2018, 04:32 AM

Originally Posted by ptchristopher3

Hey, the guy with the 175 in Europe did not win. 
 
Can CME do this guy a solid and take care of him? 
 
<a href="!64891!guitar-amps-gizmos/64891-help-cme-es-175-can-fixed.html" target="_blank">Help with CME ES-175. Can this be fixed?</a> 
 
Chris

Thanks, ptcchristofer. I must say that CME did respond very good to the problem with my ES175 offering me a replacement with no additional cost. Finally I asked for a fair compensation and got it, as I did not wanted to deal again with customs etc, and I believe I can fix properly the guitar.

**GNAPPI** · 01-26-2018, 05:00 AM

Originally Posted by Woody Sound

I wonder what they did with the turds that were returned?

Yeah, me too. Though I wonder how many were really bad.

I spoke with a sales person after one of my purchases and was asked how I liked my selection(s). I said there were a couple of nit picky things but nothing that a few minutes of detailing couldn't fix, I also told them that outright ignoring of a minor defect was OK with me. I think that they were a bit surprised that I was not asking for an additional discount.

Well, in a surprising reply I was first off thanked and then told that some buyers were sending gits back for very minor issues and they were open enough to declare they were frustrated by the situation. I was profusely thanked again before hanging up.

Now realize that I just gave the gist of the conversation, on the CME side it was in actuality quite a bit more acidic.

From that chat, I take it that many buyers were "tire kickers" looking for an in home try out at CME's expense, or wanting additional price reductions on what amounted to a "gift horse" price.

I think this sale at CME showed a level of "scumbaggery" by buyers who have lost whatever sense of honor they may have had at one time. Those unscrupulous individuals should be ashamed of their actions, but it's unlikely.

So... Yeah, me too. Though I wonder how many were really bad.

Flame off.

**rio** · 01-26-2018, 05:43 AM

Wow. Given the Gibsons that I have seen with issues (generally speaking - I didn’t not order any CME guitars) I didn’t at all think that anyone was ordering guitars exhibiting “scumbaggery” or to get an “in home try out”. That is pretty harsh but the problems I read about seemed like real issues and given that I have seen those same issues on Gibsons before it was not at all hard to believe - Gibson is not exactly known for having great QA anymore. But I wasn’t reading all of the CME Gibson threads and wasn’t keeping a tally so maybe I’m mistaken, or maybe this is talking about people not on these forums, I don’t know. I’m sure others will reply with specifics since those are pretty heavy accusations.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

**Stringswinger** · 01-26-2018, 06:03 AM

Originally Posted by GNAPPI

Yeah, me too. Though I wonder how many were really bad.

I spoke with a sales person after one of my purchases and was asked how I liked my selection(s). I said there were a couple of nit picky things but nothing that a few minutes of detailing couldn't fix, I also told them that outright ignoring of a minor defect was OK with me. I think that they were a bit surprised that I was not asking for an additional discount.

Well, in a surprising reply I was first off thanked and then told that some buyers were sending gits back for very minor issues and they were open enough to declare they were frustrated by the situation. I was profusely thanked again before hanging up.

Now realize that I just gave the gist of the conversation, on the CME side it was in actuality quite a bit more acidic.

From that chat, I take it that many buyers were "tire kickers" looking for an in home try out at CME's expense, or wanting additional price reductions on what amounted to a "gift horse" price.

I think this sale at CME showed a level of "scumbaggery" by buyers who have lost whatever sense of honor they may have had at one time. Those unscrupulous individuals should be ashamed of their actions, but it's unlikely.

So... Yeah, me too. Though I wonder how many were really bad.

Flame off.

Gary,

Some buyers are more picky than others, but some buyers also may have taken advantage as well. Around here, the usual Gibson bashers typed away, while others of us got some superb guitars at great prices.

**GNAPPI** · 01-26-2018, 06:30 AM

Originally Posted by rio

Wow. Given the Gibsons that I have seen with issues (generally speaking - I didn’t not order any CME guitars) I didn’t at all think that anyone was ordering guitars exhibiting “scumbaggery” or to get an “in home try out”. That is pretty harsh but the problems I read about seemed like real issues and given that I have seen those same issues on Gibsons before it was not at all hard to believe - Gibson is not exactly known for having great QA anymore. But I wasn’t reading all of the CME Gibson threads and wasn’t keeping a tally so maybe I’m mistaken, or maybe this is talking about people not on these forums, I don’t know. I’m sure others will reply with specifics since those are pretty heavy accusations.

But bear in mind while most of what what you said above is true, based on what's written here and other forums we REALLY don't hear the real story. I mean WHO wants to admit they're a scumbag? :-0

IMO a tally would likely show an overwhelming positive response from buyers here, the few with major issues are clearly not in the realm of being picky.

Is what I said Harsh? yes but that's what I came away with from my phone conversation. Truth hurts. I've witnessed this first hand. An already LOW price is hemmed and hawed, nit picked every little minor imperfection... FUCK!!! if players want a new PERFECT git, MAN UP and go to Sam Smash and every other big box store, waste time, gas, find a prospect, inspect it with a fine tooth comb, plunk down retail, pay tax and STFU!

**GNAPPI** · 01-26-2018, 06:43 AM

Regarding scumbaggery...

From personal experiences... I've posted used gits, and in one case a prospective "buyer" wanted a discount because it's not in a COLOR they want! WTF??? Not the COLOR they want??? And that's MY fault so I should discount it??? There aren't some out there in a color they want without pulling someone's chain? Scumbagging to get a good deal? THEN brag on some site how they got EXACTLY what they wanted and screwed the PO over?

I've also had... "Hey it's really not the YEAR I want, so what will you take off" AGAIN... WTF??? It goes on and on, wrong pups, FB, no / wrong pg. CRAP why do they want it? Why ask if it's not what they want? I say, go find one they like and STFU :-)

**ptchristopher3** · 01-26-2018, 07:59 AM

Originally Posted by ovidius

Thanks, ptcchristofer. I must say that CME did respond very good to the problem with my ES175 offering me a replacement with no additional cost. Finally I asked for a fair compensation and got it, as I did not wanted to deal again with customs etc, and I believe I can fix properly the guitar.

Great to hear that you got some help with this.

Please let us know how it all works out.

Chris

**wmachine** · 01-26-2018, 10:14 AM

Originally Posted by GNAPPI

But bear in mind while most of what what you said above is true, based on what's written here and other forums we REALLY don't hear the real story. I mean WHO wants to admit they're a scumbag? :-0........

Exactly. What you are pointing out is that "there are always two sides to the story". And some of "the other side" is what you are getting is directly from CME, not from speculation or hearsay.
"We" tend to forget that though forums are a voice, they usually don't tell the whole story. And a "forum consensus" should always be weighed and measured.
That said, CME has to deal with the good and the bad that comes out of a deal like this. And being a good business, they don't get on forums and air all the dirty laundry. So the sum total of what comes out of a forum will be skewed.

FWIW, CME has already said the returns are being sold at the store and not recirculated. And also said they *have* even returned some to Gibson.

**m_d** · 01-26-2018, 11:45 AM

Originally Posted by GNAPPI

Yeah, me too. Though I wonder how many were really bad.

I spoke with a sales person after one of my purchases and was asked how I liked my selection(s). I said there were a couple of nit picky things but nothing that a few minutes of detailing couldn't fix, I also told them that outright ignoring of a minor defect was OK with me. I think that they were a bit surprised that I was not asking for an additional discount.

Well, in a surprising reply I was first off thanked and then told that some buyers were sending gits back for very minor issues and they were open enough to declare they were frustrated by the situation. I was profusely thanked again before hanging up.

Now realize that I just gave the gist of the conversation, on the CME side it was in actuality quite a bit more acidic.

From that chat, I take it that many buyers were "tire kickers" looking for an in home try out at CME's expense, or wanting additional price reductions on what amounted to a "gift horse" price.

I think this sale at CME showed a level of "scumbaggery" by buyers who have lost whatever sense of honor they may have had at one time. Those unscrupulous individuals should be ashamed of their actions, but it's unlikely.

So... Yeah, me too. Though I wonder how many were really bad.

Flame off.

Yeah, what are you gonna do. "Consumer is king" culture. While I sometimes envy how easy consumers have it in the US compared to us in Europe, there is no doubt that culture also provides a free ride for scumbags. When I lived in New York, I knew a girl who bought dresses to just wear them once on a night out, then she would bring them to the cleaner's and return them, and she got away with it every time and she was not the only one apparently. Now that kind of thing was funny in a Seinfeld episode, but to do this in real life? You really need to have no principles at all.

**m_d** · 01-26-2018, 11:50 AM

Originally Posted by wmachine

FWIW, CME has already said the returns are being sold at the store and not recirculated. And also said they *have* even returned some to Gibson.

Now that's really nice of them, very nice to hear, I don't know when my next guitar purchase will be, but it's good to know CME can be safely added to my list of potential sellers.

**vinnyv1k** · 01-26-2018, 12:06 PM

In the defense of CME they had to take all of Gibson’s inventory. Gibson has never been 10 For 10 QC wise ever.
You have just as much of a chance getting a turd from Musicians Friend or Guitar Center online.
Every guitar returned to CME was met with a replacement or full refund. No questions asked. It is impossible for CME to speculate what quality level you demand in a guitar. Some people can care less about a ding or check. Others find it completely unacceptable. Many had badly notched nuts. That is a complete non issue with me. A $75 fix doen’t bother me at a $2k price for a blonde new 175. Others go through the roof. I will most likely buy my next guitar from CME also. They treated me right and I sent back 3 guitars and got 4 absolutely perfect guitars at less than half price. It was totally worth a little leg work on my part. A drive to the corner UPS drop off was not a issue for me to send back 3.
You can’t walk into music stores and try out countless Archtop guitars. Never could. Rolling the dice with no risk is fine with me. I would do it again in a heartbeat.

**lawson-stone** · 01-26-2018, 12:21 PM

I rather wish language like "scumbag" in reference to fellow forum members could be avoided. To be sure, some people might over-exploit the good will of a given merchant, like CME, and CME might make its share of mistakes. But abusive language that presumes to know... and to judge... another's motive seems to me to be unhelpful.

In a world of really shady sales practices, CME has distinguished themselves, in my experience, as a seller who really cares about its customers and tries to treat them right. They'll be my first reference next time I'm shopping for any piece of musical gear.

**GNAPPI** · 01-26-2018, 01:03 PM

Originally Posted by lawson-stone

I rather wish language like "scumbag" in reference to fellow forum members could be avoided.

I don't remember targeting or referencing fellow members here.

I did say...

"But bear in mind while most of what what you said above is true, based on what's written here and other forums we REALLY don't hear the real story. I mean WHO wants to admit they're a scumbag? :-0"

Saying that is not an accusation on anyone here by any stretch, IMO. But if anyone took direct offense and they were NOT guilty of scumbaggery, Mea Culpa.

**GNAPPI** · 01-26-2018, 01:23 PM

Originally Posted by m_d

Yeah, what are you gonna do. "Consumer is king" culture. While I sometimes envy how easy consumers have it in the US compared to us in Europe, there is no doubt that culture also provides a free ride for scumbags. When I lived in New York, I knew a girl who bought dresses to just wear them once on a night out, then she would bring them to the cleaner's and return them, and she got away with it every time and she was not the only one apparently. Now that kind of thing was funny in a Seinfeld episode, but to do this in real life? You really need to have no principles at all.

I'm sorry I couldn't give more than one like on your comment, but here it is :-)

Chicago Music Exchange Memphis coming to an end:(-like_emoticon-jpg

**rpguitar** · 01-26-2018, 01:24 PM

Originally Posted by vinnyv1k

A $75 fix doen’t bother me at a $2k price for a blonde new 175. Others go through the roof.

I do not generally care about dings and checks and smudges and overspray inside the F-holes. But playability issues requiring post-sale work at my cost are not acceptable to me, unless clearly spelled out, regardless of the "deal" I've been given.

To me, a sale price doesn't mean I should be grateful for whatever I get - it just means a lower price for something. Same product, lower price. The Memphis guitars could not be listed as new but they were listed as mint or excellent. Mint is self-explanatory.

This being said, it's not something even remotely unique to CME, it's practically every retail shop that deals online with considerable volume. I have had several experiences of either significant after-sale expense or sending guitars back for blatant fretwork, fingerboard, or related playability flaws. Unless disclosed in advance, that kind of sales behavior does not pass my quality test.

The bottom line is that these experiences hurt a retailer's reputation. Whether it's just me quietly not trusting them again, or a particularly irritated buyer ranting on the internet, it hurts them. They should care about that, and we should not give them a pass. The guy in Europe who got the 275 with a poorly cut nut and beveled frets explicitly asked for a careful inspection due to the challenges of overseas shipping. Clearly he didn't get that. They apparently are making it up to him, but who wants all of that drama?

**Stringswinger** · 01-26-2018, 01:47 PM

Originally Posted by rpguitar

I do not generally care about dings and checks and smudges and overspray inside the F-holes. But playability issues requiring post-sale work at my cost are not acceptable to me, unless clearly spelled out, regardless of the "deal" I've been given.

To me, a sale price doesn't mean I should be grateful for whatever I get - it just means a lower price for something. Same product, lower price. The Memphis guitars could not be listed as new but they were listed as mint or excellent. Mint is self-explanatory.

This being said, it's not something even remotely unique to CME, it's practically every retail shop that deals online with considerable volume. I have had several experiences of either significant after-sale expense or sending guitars back for blatant fretwork, fingerboard, or related playability flaws. Unless disclosed in advance, that kind of sales behavior does not pass my quality test.

The bottom line is that these experiences hurt a retailer's reputation. Whether it's just me quietly not trusting them again, or a particularly irritated buyer ranting on the internet, it hurts them. They should care about that, and we should not give them a pass. The guy in Europe who got the 275 with a poorly cut nut and beveled frets explicitly asked for a careful inspection due to the challenges of overseas shipping. Clearly he didn't get that. They apparently are making it up to him, but who wants all of that drama?

In Capitalism (a system invented by the Dutch and adopted by the English), profit is the engine that creates excellence (If you cannot make a profit why work hard for others? A Socialist may take issue with that, but human nature , dare I say it, takes issue with Socialism). The profit margin on these CME deals was probably too small to provide serious pre delivery inspections of all of these guitars. Combine that with the fact that some buyers are not too picky, it probably made economic sense for CME to do a minimal setup and ship the guitars and let the chips fall where they may. Far cheaper to make things right with the few "picky" buyers or the even fewer truly defective guitars that were shipped. Most of us who risked some "drama" came out quite well, others (a scant few, I would bet, fared less well, but not terribly bad).

Having been in business (and having both made a fortune and lost a fortune taking the risks), I share Gary's contempt for both those who game the system (sorry Lawson, those folks are truly scumbags. Sometimes one must call a spade a spade, however unhelpful that might seem) and those who have never taken the risk, but feel entitled to condemn the often necessary practices of those who do.

CME has made this whole blowout a "win-win" for all who participated, even those whose guitars had flaws or simply did not measure up to the standards of an overly picky buyer (it WAS disclosed that some of these guitars had flaws). If someone got a CME blowout Gibson with a serious problem and CME failed to make it right, let's hear about it. Until then, the CME bashers do need to tamp down the rhetoric. For it only speaks poorly of the bashers.