Modifying a 50s Gibson ES-225T

[md54]

Brilliant replies guys.
Thanks.
I’ve got my eye on a reissue. Very tempted!

[Flat]

'Zup, Zizala! So you went ahead and converted too! About a hundred years ago on the UMGF I got the impression you liked the trapeze.

I also have a '57 or maybe '58 that I converted from trapeze to TOM when I was at GIT in 1983. I was having some minor intonation trouble. The TOM helped. The trapeze might have had a bit more sustain.

Ironically, I am now planning to reinstall the trapeze because I might sell the guitar, and I thought the original version would be more attractive to buyers.

Zizala's 225 is the more-appealing two pickup version. Mine is the humble single pickup. I imagine the reissue you are looking at is a two-pickup model? It is definitely preferable.

Sweet old guitars. Hope you like yours (if you go for it)!



(Added later: I just realized I posted basically the same photo of the same guitar in the same thread almost three years apart. Something must be wrong with me.)

[md54]

I noticed that you have a 330 type TOM mounted directly into the top without a wood bridge foot. I am wondering what struts or reinforcement is underneath. The 330 has a reinforced area under I believe. Not sure about the 225. Do you know?
Thanks again for the advice.

[Flat]

Sorry, md54, I don't really know. To my understanding, the original trapeze rests on two "metal feet." I think you can rotate each "foot" to raise or lower the bridge. (You can see one "foot" this photo of somebody else's 225.)

The guy who installed my TOM put it right over those two feet. There are two marks or scars where those feet have always rested, but they are in the same location.

I don't know what is underneath the guitar's top at that point--if there is any support block or bracing. I've never been worried about the TOM collapsing or warping the top or anything.

[md54]

Many thanks. I suspect that the 225 also has a small support strut running between the two main struts just under the bridge feet. Makes sense.

[zizala]

Hey Flat.....yes its been a long time!
Back in the UMGF days my ES-225 was like yours with the one pickup.....

I sold that one a long time ago, but bought this one more recently for a good price just for a second go 'round.
My tastes and awareness of what sort of sound I want out of a thinline hollow body electric have changed since then.
I remember that first ES-225 as being my first electric guitar of any kind and I had a lot to learn!
Anyway....just like the bridges on my acoustic Gibsons and Epiphones.....the all wood bridge ended up what I like best.

md54....

My '57 has a block about 3/8" maybe 1/2" thick glued to the top between the braces.
It spans from just behind the bridge pickup under the bridge and ends about where the trapeze crossbar is located.
(Doesn't t extend all the way to the rear rim). Its obviously not deep enough to make any contact with the back.

I didn't know this at first, but wondered why a '60 ES-125TC I once owned had a much more acoustic quality to its unamplified (and amplified) sound. So I checked with a mirror inside the 225 and there was this block of wood that explained the difference.
So the 225 is a hollow body with a block under the bridge, while the 125TC is a true hollow body.
I believe this '57 has a thicker top too.....

Even with my rosewood bridge conversion the ES-225 has nice sustain and behaves more like a pure electric,
with less of an acoustic voice than that ES-125TC or my hollowbody Guild T-100's.
I've often wondered if the earlier ES-330 models had the same block....but have never crossed paths with one.

[md54]

Great information.
So you can have either a floating wood bridge or a fixed TOM with the threaded supports going right into the top without fear of them failing.
Cheers!

[zizala]

I remember some mention that you were looking at a reissue....

I'd guess one might wonder if the reissue was a "faithful" repro of the originals....if it has the block as I described.
If it does I'd suppose that one could pin the bridge successfully without structural damage.

But trying what was done with Flat's guitar might be worth a try.....before fixing a TOM with pins.
I'm one of those that couldn't possibly imagine playing a guitar in such a way that I'd cause misplacement of a floating bridge!

But thats just me and the way I do it.

[md54]

Yup. Me too.
I would go for a wood float bridge. With... proper strings they never move for me. Also I never rest the heal of my right hand on the bridge as all the rockers do.
However, there has to be enough height to get one in place. Depends on the neck set angle etc.. When I get a chance to view the guitar in more detail I’ll be able to find out.
All the best!

[powerwagonjohn]

I played a re-issue ES-225 in a shop when they were around but this particular guitar belonged to the shop owner, he used it for amp demos. I was plesantally suprised that the guitar sounded, played and felt just like my 1956 ES-225. Gibson did a great job with these re-issues in my opinion. I never looked inside his or mine, now you have me curious.
Thanks John

[md54]

With a wood floating bridge the extra width allows the down force to be spread onto the two parallel struts under. However the narrower TOM only would only be anchored in 3 ply laminate. I suspect the Les Paul combo is also supported by some extra wood but I really don’t know. You need a dentists mirror to find out if you really want to know. You might be able to feel with fingers if they are long enough.

[sgosnell]

A phone through the f hole works pretty well for seeing what's inside.

[fndrstrtmn]

Hi all. I recently acquired a '58 ES-225TN. The original tuning machines are shot and I'm considering replacing with a set of either Kluson or Grover replacements. Anyone have experience replacing tuners on an ES-225? Would one or the other be a fit without having to drill new holes? Appreciate any insight in advance.

[Hammertone]

Rene got it right. Useful and reversible mods to the execrable Gibson long bridge/trapeze tp:

[AllanAllen]

I really like the simplicity of those tailpiece bridge combos.