Fender Stratocaster for Jazz?

[Thumpalumpacus]

Semi-jazz on a Strat, courtesy of the gent mentioned upthread --

[woland]

I think the issue of choked notes is an important one. I can hear that with my Strat copy. Oddly enough, it seems intermittent and may have something to do with the amplifier. More likely, it has to do with how hard I'm picking. Also, that the action is set as low as I've ever seen anybody use, and the strings are light (an accommodation to arthritis). I don't know if the choking is the guitar, the setup, or my technique combined with unrealistic expectations.

My D'Angelico 2009 EXDC isn't much better in the upper registers, so I can't use the D or G strings around the 15th fret -- which is not a problem on the Yamaha Strat copy.

My old L5S didn't have the problem, as far as I recall, but was set up with heavier strings and higher action.

It just underscores how difficult it is to select a guitar. At the risk of belaboring the point, you can't be sure until you've set it up properly, maybe changed strings and pickup, and played it for a while in whatever situations you need it for.

It doesn't surprise me that people are posting videos of all kinds of guitars sounding great.

I recently heard a player whose name you would know play a standard on my Yamaha cheapie through a 12 watt Crate amp ($99 new, I think) -- and sound like himself. I think his $16k Benedetto sounds better, but not by as much as I would have thought.

My Strat is set with Pyramid 10s which usually feel "slinkier" than the gauge - on most guitars I use 11s to have a bit more pick resistance (I use heavy picks) and stability when fretting stretched out chords. But I wanted Strat to be well.. Stratty. Action is set low and you need to be somewhat careful with digging harder into it because it will get squashy and snappy. Chordal work with fingers gives you that nice electric piano vibe with percussive attack - which I like A LOT - just add nice verb and a dash of sth wobbly - eg tremolo and I am in heaven.
For single notes I am working on picking etudes to get my attack right. I have 14s (TI Benson's) on my d'Angelico and you can just rely on pick just bouncing back of strings. And the action is VERY low on that one. I do not play it often enough but with floating pup it is howling machine so I am scared to take it anywhere. Plus you feel naked on that guitar - you have to be very precise - there is nowhere to hide. Strat allows you to be way more messy but I want all my notes to by round and full - gotta adjust my touch quite a bit. I try also very light picks (Robert Conti's style) - they rarely work for me on other guitar - tone is too "snappy" but on Strat they are possibility.
I think that is general rule - higher gauge allows lower action.
As for good player sounding the same no matter what gears - yes - I remember seeing that fingerstyle virtuoso Doyle Dykes doing Taylor demo at local GC store. He went through entire Taylor lineup - from 900s to 100s and sounded great on every one of them.

[woland]

A Strat could work depending on your style, and by that I mean, the guitar tends to influence how you play because of it's design. Like in the Jack Pearson example above, I hear elements of rock guitar, bends & such. Compared to, say, an acoustic archtop with no cutaway, you'd might be more inclined to play rhythm chords ala' Freddie Green.

I had an Ibanez Blazer, a Strat copy, for a few years. I found the pickups to be too hot, and I didn't like the strings so close to the body.

Strangely enough I find it easier to do chords with pick on Strat and deliver cohesive chunks of harmony than on most other guitars - where I usually comp with fingers. Maybe I will finally learn how to use pick for chords. And on the flipside - I quite like playing chord melody on Strat - there is a bit of "electric piano" factor - percussiveness and sustain that I really like.

[Thumpalumpacus]

My Strat is set with Pyramid 10s which usually feel "slinkier" than the gauge - on most guitars I use 11s to have a bit more pick resistance (I use heavy picks) and stability when fretting stretched out chords.

I play one gauge down on all Fender-scale instruments, to accommodate for the +3/4". It helps to keep the feel similar across guitars.

[rpjazzguitar]

A friend plays an Eric Johnson Strat through a Victoria amp and a reverb box of some kind. Single coils.

His sound is awesome for jazz. Of course, he sounds great on every guitar he plays.

I can't get a sound I like through a single coil in the neck position, but I love it when he does it..

Another point: my genuine Fender is a 9.5 radius, but I couldn't get used to it. The Yamaha Pacifica is 12 or 14, I can't recall the exact number. I find it very comfortable.

One other point. The Duncan Lil 59 I use replaces the Strat pickup. So it's a narrow pickup compared to the usual Gibson style HB. Apparently, that matters. It makes it lean a little more towards a single coil type sound compared to a standard size HB. Something to do with the shorter length of string which is being sensed

[Robertkoa]

Bireli has been playing a Yamaha Pacifica a lot lately. Not the most expensive guitar in the world, but it sounds ok.

Wow. That is really cool. I gave one of those to a friend a few years ago who thought he might learn to Play..

I always say ..for $200 new or $100 used ..one of the cheapest Pro Instruments you can buy I just bought one to fool around with for $99 in the 90s I think.

Pacificas usually have a Radius of 13.75".

Feels identical to 14" to me.

[Hammertone]

Set neck Hollow Body Strat with just a block under the Stoptail TuneOmatic Bridge in H- S- H with switches. And an Angled Headstock for proper down pressure on the Nut ...and Jescar Fretwire.
Would be really cool. Fender won't do it - they don't need to because they are supported by Baby Boomers who think everything was better in the 50's and 60's lol.

That wouldn't be a strat. It would be a strat-shaped guitar, but it basically swaps out everything that mnakes a strat a strat. But if that's what you want, you can build it yourself from Warmoth parts. (Except for the set neck part).

Fender's Custom Shop would be happy to build this guitar for you. Just pay them. Or, as suggested, you can assemble it yourself for 1/10th the price. The set neck part is dead easy - you just glue the neck into the neck pocket instead of using screws.

[Ejay]

[sgosnell]

That's not really a Strat. Strat body, but what appears to be a Tele neck, humbucker, and who knows what other mods are involved. Not a bad tone, though.

[Hammertone]

That's not really a Strat. Strat body, but what appears to be a Tele neck, humbucker, and who knows what other mods are involved. Not a bad tone, though.

Look again. Very much a Strat, albeit quite used. H-S-H wiring mod with a couple of extra switches. Eef's pretty cool.

Since, like reality, jazz and Strats are illusory, I think there's plenty of wiggle room in the concept.

Far more important, of course, is the colour of one's strat.

[sgosnell]

I guess the grunge/burns on the headstock were causing the illusion. I had to blow the video up a lot to see it, but yes, that's a Strat headstock. From the small sized video it really looked like a Tele head, though. And yes, I guess the color is important, just as the color and flame on an archtop is important. It affects the perception of the tone for lots of people.

[Robertkoa]

Fender's Custom Shop would be happy to build this guitar for you. Just pay them. Or, as suggested, you can assemble it yourself for 1/10th the price. The set neck part is dead easy - you just glue the neck into the neck pocket instead of using screws.

Lol. That is not the same as a long tenon set neck .

What I described above would be a poor man's Marchione- a totally different sounding Instrument .

I do not think of Strats as Tone Machines..I've talked to people who make them ...some famous some not-
not much demand for extending luthiery and Guitar Design is what they say -the larger Manufacturers I mean.


There's some cool stuff happening though- but if I was going to spend $5000 to $12000 on a Custom Guitar ..Fender Custom Shop would be the absolute last place I would go.

The Fender Custom Shop at one time developed and used an unusually strong Set Neck Joint but they did not attach it to a Body with either a lot of Resonance or a lower Primary Resonant Frequency (or preferably combinations of both ) to take much advantage of it.

Although they supposedly sounded very good.

And I said I have a heavy Koa Superstrat with a lot of resonance -I played one Anderson that was very loud also ..though not as deep.

I'm looking at Semis and Archtops with coil cuts to cover the Phatter Tones.

F__ - Fender Custom Shop wanted $8000 just for a Black Korina Bolt on with a few spec changes and that was about the year 1990.
And it would not have sounded radically different from the other Strats they make the weight and the Pickup switches would have made some differences- ..I laughed when I heard that price.

I don't think you are following me .

The Fender Stratocaster is on the absolute cutting edge of Guitar Technology and Luthiery and Tones in a Mass Production Assembly line application for Modern Music .

You like that Ad Copy I made up ?
Welcome to 1958...lol.

[Hammertone]

Lol. That is not the same as a long tenon set neck. …[ ]...

I bet the surface contact area of such a joint would be very large. Come to think of it, Musikraft makes a very nice set-neck strat with all sorts of choices for neck size, frets, neck and body wood, for under a grand. Hmmmm…

[Robertkoa]

I bet the surface contact area of such a joint would be very large. Come to think of it, Musikraft makes a very nice set-neck strat with all sorts of choices for neck size, frets, neck and body wood, for under a grand. Hmmmm…

That might be really cool ..that's an actual set neck
Not slopping up the Bolt Joint with JB WELD lol.

Just remember ..and I'm no Luthier but I've talked to a few that you may want either a Hollow or Semi Hollow or some type of wood mass to get the full advantage of deeper Tones.

I am not sure that a 3 pound Ash Body with a Set Neck will be much deeper or have very different characteristics from a Bolt On.

The owner of US Masters in a long discussion told me ( they made or had made ) Bolts Set Necks and Neck Thrus- There IS something to a compression joint that a Bolt On Gives he said but you want tight neck pockets and a few other things ..
he had little experience with Set Neck 25.5" Scale .

Anderson Guitars has a Wedgie Joint and some of their Bolt Ons are resonant but my Superstrat does that already ..
I am trying to get 80 or 90% of a Marchione type Tone or I may just get a Seventy Seven Archtop with Coil Cuts - these are my eccentricities and I am not using Gain much at all...even light Gain..not hearing it any more.

Musicraft was $ 1800 a some years back I thought.

I would tell them what you want -the sounds etc.

A set neck semi custom is great at $1000 to $1500 with dry Mahogany or chambered or Hollow that could be killer for taking Strat Inspired stuff to new places ( while still covering the stringiness ).

I am interested in that myself maybe Musikraft lowered their Prices.?

I wonder if it's really a True Set Neck like in that picture.


I asked John Suhr about some of his set neck Strats he had done and he said they were deeper but not that much and I was on the Phone ( don't know him personally )
so didn't have much time..
He owns a Collings Semi Hollow he mentioned on TGP .

I'd like to hear a 25.5 " scale Musikraft H-S H Mahogany Set Neck with Ebony FB at about 9 pounds ( LP weight ) though.. for even $ 1500.

On another thread Korean overperforming Guitars there is a 25.5" scale Semi Made in Korea with 2 Duncan Pickups but not H-S-H and Demos are inconclusive ( Guitar World ) for Jazz Cleans...nice Fusion Tones ..they will do coil cuts.

I am trying to talk one of their Dealers into a Demo with 11s to see if it can sound like a 25.5" scale 137

I would really like to hear .012 gauge on these.
meaning more Acoustic and Phatter than a 335.

Hopefully they will get a clean oriented Player and do a thorough Demo.
They are 20 frets and the Neck Humbucker is right next to the FB- should be Phatt.

Those Andy Timmons Ibanez Models are nice for Fusion .. an exception to the Tone is in the fingers Rule because that Guitar, even the cheaper one has the Timmons Tones from those Cruiser Pickups, it has a lot of his' sound.'


Disclaimer- I do not CARE about the Strat Shape- I care about the 25.5" Scale and including some of the Classic Tones ( but with more Bloom and Early Sustain ) but going into Archtop Territory .

- "You are so dreaming Robert ."

Yes I know lol..actually the Marchione does that and it's not even trying to ( well one toggle switch and it will.

On the other hand a Seventy Seven Archtop Jazz Hawk with single coils will probably do great as well despite Scale Length..[they are not interested in 25.5" Design at this Time - takes a lot of R&D they say- and
they KNOW this far far better than I ..obviously].

(This was through their Distributor.)

[Stringswinger]

Most solidbody jazz guitarists (who are not playing fusion) use a Telecaster or Les Paul. Having owned both, I can say that those are very good choices. But the Stratocaster was Leo Fender's answer to the Les Paul. At the time. Leo foresaw Western Swing players using the Strat. Little did he realize that the Strat was to become the most popular rock and blues guitar of all time.

Eldon Shamblin of Bob Wills and the Texas Playboys was an early adopter of the Strat. Thus the Stratocaster has a Western Swing pedigree to be sure.

Country Music Singer Ginny Mitchell approached me a few years ago about playing in a Western Swing combo of hers with Patti Maxine on lap steel. As Patti is a member of the Western Swing hall of fame, how could I say no? The band "S'wang" does about 6 gigs a year, all well paid. The other day, Ginny put a video on youtube from a concert we did last year. I was playing my Stratocaster, my last solidbody (Telecasters do not do it for me and Les Paul's have become too heavy for my 60 year old shoulders). I customized my Strat to have a single Humbucker in the neck position (A Duncan 59). On most tunes with this band, I am strictly rhythm (except for the few tunes we do with simple changes where Ginny can back me on her pre-war Martin 000-18) and the tune on this video is all about Patti Maxine on the solo. I think my Stratocaster does the job. IMO, a Stratocaster is a fine choice for jazz if a solid body is needed or preferred. Enjoy.

[D.G.]

Love Patti's playing!

I'll be honest, I don't care for the guitar tone, and it's got nothing to do with the Strat, and everything to do with the humbucker. Too dark and heavy IMO. This could be mitigated by a somewhat different style of playing, but each to his own!

[john_a]

Yeah for Strats with HB neck PU !
Band sounds great, guitar chords are full sounding and that solid body just plain works (and is comfortable too I would think.)

@D.G. I do understand the fine line between full and over-heavy, but that duncan 59 is not muddy to my ears.

John

[citizenk74]

A Strat with fat flats sounds mighty fine, and yours is no exception, Ss (Duncan '59s are a personal fave)! And Ms. Maxine sounds swell on that steel! Gigs a little outside one's usual bill of fare are good for the soul. Play on!

[Greentone]

I love playing a Stratocaster with big flats and using the neck pu for jazz.

[Stringswinger]

Some guys do not like humbuckers, I understand that. And some humbuckers are dark and muddy to be sure, but I love the Duncan 59 neck PUP. The Alnico 5 magnet keeps the "edge".

[Stringswinger]

I love playing a Stratocaster with big flats and using the neck pu for jazz.

I have TI 12 flats on that guitar and was playing through a AI Clarus/RE Stealth10ER rig.

[Greentone]

I've always liked a neck Humbucker on a Strat, but I have a Fralin single coil in mine that sounds just great for jazz.

[D.G.]

Some guys do not like humbuckers, I understand that. And some humbuckers are dark and muddy to be sure, but I love the Duncan 59 neck PUP. The Alnico 5 magnet keeps the "edge".

True that! I've only got one guitar right now with a humbucker in the neck and it's a new GB 40thII. Extremely punchy. Lots and lots and lots of mids, but pretty compressed next to a p90 or a Fender single coil.

It's not that I think your setup doesn't make for a good jazz tone -- for work with a drummer in a more straight-ahead ensemble I think it'd be great -- I just think it isn't cutting enough for a swing rhythm guitar tone But like I say, to each their own! After all, I'll play gypsy rhythm on a p90 archtop in my swing band and I know that campusfive (Mr. Stout) would likely frown at me pretty hard for not using an acoustic tone

[john_a]

I've used strats with neck HB for decades, and the '59 is what I use as a base line to check out what a new guitar is going to require.

The '59 is pretty consistent build, I do have my earliest one with 48mm pole spacing, and the maker's initial "J" that indicates it was wound by their best (Maricella Juarez) and that PU does have extra sweetness (yes, I'm promoting interweb gear myths.)

But with all the HB love I've developed, I am recently coming around to the "bright" side again, and have been on a single coil binge.
Got a Lollar CC for the archtop a while back, but the big clear reveal was when I put Fralin P92 set on a semi. Following that, I sampled Fralin P90, Gibson P94 and just got my Biltoft HCC. There's still going to be HB guitars always within reach around me as there's really something great with them with the right match.

[Stringswinger]

True that! I've only got one guitar right now with a humbucker in the neck and it's a new GB 40thII. Extremely punchy. Lots and lots and lots of mids, but pretty compressed next to a p90 or a Fender single coil.

It's not that I think your setup doesn't make for a good jazz tone -- for work with a drummer in a more straight-ahead ensemble I think it'd be great -- I just think it isn't cutting enough for a swing rhythm guitar tone But like I say, to each their own! After all, I'll play gypsy rhythm on a p90 archtop in my swing band and I know that campusfive (Mr. Stout) would likely frown at me pretty hard for not using an acoustic tone

I have taken heat from the Gypsy Jazz Police for years for using a humbucker equipped ES-175 for Gypsy jazz. Some of that heat dissipated when I lent such a 175 to Robin Nolan for a Djangofest concert. All of the sudden guys were asking my advice on which 175 to buy.

Django's brother Joseph played a 59 ES-175 for most of his "post-Django" career. That guitar went to both of Django's sons, Babik and Lousson who played it. Today Django's grandson playes a 175. IMO, had Django lived longer, he too would have played a 175.

A purely acoustic guitar or even a single coil equipped electric guitar does have more "snap" for playing without drums to be sure. But IMO, a 25.5 scale guitar with a humbucker can get the job done.

And I hate the "buzz".